Server ops.. question.

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Server ops.. question.

Post by Fusion pimp » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:30 am

Is there a way to provide games to only resonably low ping/no loss players? For instance, if a player were to enter a 100ms max game and they were pinging 101ms, the server would boot them. I'm not sure if it's possible, but, it would sure make gameplay a lot nicer. As selfish as it sounds, I know that poor gameplay is keeping a lot of people from playing an already dying game.

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Post by Krom » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:33 am

Got owned by someone because they were skippy again? Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
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Post by Fusion pimp » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:45 am

Nah, it's more like I get tired of entering servers knowing that the existing players are pinging well with no loss. Everything goes fine until someone with a ton of loss enters and brings gameplay down. I understand it's not their fault and they have just as much right to the server as I do. However, it would be nice to have at least one server that spoiled Lan brats like me can go to and get a decent game.
You have no idea how frustrating it is... I dunno, maybe you do.

Very few people now days are skippy to me, Krom. The problem I'm having is that nomatter how you lead, damage is not received.

Thinking it might be on my end, I ran NAV grasping at straws and hoping that it's my sys. Well, I found a couple(winshow) of virii and spend 4 hours deleting/reg-editing to clean up my sys thinking that it might help my problem. Went into a couple of games today and it's the same thing.

Clean gameplay is not too much to ask.


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Post by Clayman » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:52 am

I can see the concern, but I'm not sure that ping itself is the problem. I've seen sub-100 ping players who don't take as much damage as they should. Also, even if it were implemented, I would think there would have to be a time threshold, since many players experience ping spikes every now and then, and booting someone for going over 100 for a few seconds is going to mean a lot of pissed off players.
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Post by Fusion pimp » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:00 am

Or, it might make get a solid connect Image

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Post by HaAGen DaZS » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:27 am

the problem with this idea would be that you have people like me... - i'm not sure if it's my computer not beig able to handle the modem eating up resources, or the game being too much for the comp, but at times when I am shot down, I end up with insane spikes....

a server with a ping-cutoff... can count me out. Image
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Post by AceCombat » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Fusion pimp:
<b> Is there a way to provide games to only resonably low ping/no loss players? For instance, if a player were to enter a 100ms max game and they were pinging 101ms, the server would boot them. I'm not sure if it's possible, but, it would sure make gameplay a lot nicer. As selfish as it sounds, I know that poor gameplay is keeping a lot of people from playing an already dying game.

B-</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

to me, anything <100 and upto 150 is just fine, i would limit it to 150 since some people use cable and they have fluctuating ping times, unlike most of the DSL users who have a steady bandwidth. but thats just my opinion
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Post by Sarge » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:14 pm

There's no way to do that in Descent..... wadda you think this is , Quack? (yes, you can do that with Quake2 and up servers)
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Post by Krom » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:53 pm

Some of the hardest to hit players ping at less then 40 MS, for some reason you just cant thit them.

Barry, get a diffrent connection/ISP, try a diffrent server. Its probably YOUR connection not theirs, either your connect is just bad, or you have a bad hop to the server somewhere. You were always too quick to blame everyone else's connect. Of course its a lot harder to tell in a 1v1, try a 4 or more player anarchy, if everyone is skippy or hard to hit, then its most likely your connect.
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Post by Fusion pimp » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:55 pm

Krom, it's not my connect. Initially, I thought it might have been.. but it's not.I've had the same connect for 4 years, I know what my connect does and does not do. I've played this game long enough to know if the loss is on my side. I avoid servers that are lossy to me because most likely, the loss will translate to the other players and I don't want to bring gameplay down for them.
I'm too quick to blame every elses connect? This is coming from a guy that I *can't* hit on-line but have absolutely no problem with on lan. You're one of the worst for me.

I'm not intentionally placing the blame, I'm simply looking for quality gameplay.Too much to ask?
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Post by Ferno » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:58 pm

I ditched cable for DSL for the same reasons you said Barry.
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Post by kurupt » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:11 pm

sorry b Image

i wish dsl were available here, but it's cable or 56k.

I'm one of the more notorious low ping, cant kill players around, along with Krom and Crown... coincidence? perhaps.... Image

You'd probably be stuck with passwording a server and only allowing people to play on it that you know will not ruin the gameplay. Pre configured games, hard to do, sweet when they happen Image
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Post by Krom » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:07 pm

I never said *my* connect was good barry, did I bother you with that comment? Image

You must keep that one LAN game in some kind of shrine or temple or something, do you pray to that game or worship it along with daily sacrifices? Image
<font face="Arial" size="3">I'm not intentionally placing the blame, I'm simply looking for quality gameplay.Too much to ask?</font>
Quality gameplay on the internet?...olololol Image
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Post by Birdseye » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:14 pm

"Some of the hardest to hit players ping at less then 40 MS, for some reason you just cant thit them."

This is due to reduced dodge-lag. There is shot and dodge lag in D3.
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Post by Krom » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:22 pm

Yeah, thats what I always pin it on when there is someone at a low ping that I cannot hit. I know the few times I have been at such a low ping that I can dodge things with far less effort that I couldnt dodge at my normal 100-120 MS. Still cannot escape from MD tho. =)
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Post by Birdseye » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:26 pm

Dodge lag is also why LAN feels sooooo good in d3. To me the most annoying thing about d3 online is the dodge-lag from c/s. You've got accurates off with this HUGE bubble to hit, plus a load of dodge lag. I "dodge" things all the time, but die anyway Image
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Post by Fusion pimp » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:45 pm

K, what are you apologizing for? No need for that.. but, thanks.

<font face="Arial" size="3">You must keep that one LAN game in some kind of shrine or temple or something, do you pray to that game or worship it along with daily sacrifices? </font>
I do..
<font face="Arial" size="3">Quality gameplay on the internet?...olololol</font>
I remember playing 1.0, Data McFly servers on 56k with 250ms+ and it played better then it does now at 50ms.
<font face="Arial" size="3">This is due to reduced dodge-lag. There is shot and dodge lag in D3.</font>
I don't think I understand, Brian.. care to explain?

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Post by kurupt » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:14 am

That phenomena where you shoot a guy with a blob of tri-fusion and he doesn't really even dodge it, just moves slightly and it engulfs him, yet he doesn't take any damage. Happens to me all the time. I would imagine I probably do that to others all the time too, would explain 99% of the hack accusations out there.
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Post by WarAdvocat » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:46 am

And the flip side of the coin is where a triple barney passes 2 ship-lengths to the side, and yet you are raped of 110 shields and die anyway. That's always been a particular favorite of mine.

I think that's what Birds is talking about in re: "Dodge Lag", which is to say, by the time you see the shot coming and dodge, you're already dead in the real world, it just takes a few extra milliseconds for virtuality to catch up. That's where players w/ sub-40 pings have a real advantage in 'knife-range' fusion duels, for instance. They are far more likely to see something coming in time to dodge it.

Barry, something else you might want to consider is that there are plenty of people who have good connects, but don't have your advantage of location. Let's face it, there's more miles of fiber in Santa Clara Sounty/SF Bay Area than there is in most of the rest of the country. Why I ever moved from there I'll never know...Must be a masochist.

The problem is that quite often you'll have near-LAN quality connects to servers, whereas those of us unfortunate enough to be further away have connections that are entirely at the mercy of up to 10 different providers and their chosen routing before our packets get within 3 hops of a server. The inefficiencies build up, because the internet is designed for redundancy rather than transmission speed and accuracy.

And that's gotta be frustrating for you...I know it's frustrating to me to see a guy totally destroy me when we really should have been around even if what I saw on my screen had been happening @ a LAN. By the same token, I'm sure I do the same thing to other people on occasion. If you can be philosophical, and take the good with the bad, I think it evens out.

The thing that gets me is how I can consistently demolish players from Australia w/ 250+ pings, and then be consistently raped by players w/ pings around my own (generally under 100) who I can't touch despite what look like hits...and then do really well on LAN all within 72 hours...It's just...the internet, love it or hate it, it's what we've got.
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Post by Fusion pimp » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Barry, something else you might want to consider is that there are plenty of people who have good connects, but don't have your advantage of location. Let's face it, there's more miles of fiber in Santa Clara Sounty/SF Bay Area than there is in most of the rest of the country. Why I ever moved from there I'll never know...Must be a masochist.

The problem is that quite often you'll have near-LAN quality connects to servers, whereas those of us unfortunate enough to be further away have connections that are entirely at the mercy of up to 10 different providers and their chosen routing before our packets get within 3 hops of a server. The inefficiencies build up, because the internet is designed for redundancy rather than transmission speed and accuracy.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure that's accurate. I always have trouble with anyone east of say, CO.
To be more precise,anyone east of 8th street in Boulder. Kidding! Image
<font face="Arial" size="3">And that's gotta be frustrating for you...I know it's frustrating to me to see a guy totally destroy me when we really should have been around even if what I saw on my screen had been happening @ a LAN. By the same token, I'm sure I do the same thing to other people on occasion. If you can be philosophical, and take the good with the bad, I think it evens out.</font>
It's very frustrating, which is why I come and go at on-line play. It's also why I'm looking for a server that will do the above mentioned task. It's not that I want to limit other peoples' gameplay.. I want to improve *my* gameplay, at least have the chance to play in the best conditions the net has to offer.

What sucks is that there are people that I really enjoy playing like Kurupt, Testi and believe or not, Crown( and many others)... the distance just makes it nearly impossible and I end up getting frustrated the whole game. The funny thing is, almost nobody skips to me, I can see/track then without problem. It's the constant splashing that drives me up the wall.

1.0 plays far better with alomst anyone, too bad nobody wants to play it.

At this point I'm going to assume that either server ops are unable to do this, or they are unwilling.. understandable.

Take care,

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Post by Krom » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:14 pm

(22:53:13) Barry: Smart alec

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Post by Fusion pimp » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:28 pm

hehe
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Post by WarAdvocat » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:36 pm

Hmm. 1.0 plays better huh...

Is there a way to use 1.0, 1.4 and 1.5 all on one install?

I'd be more than willing to try it, and I'm sure we could get a cabal of freaks who wanna go with it. Maybe teh Krom would, for example.
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Post by Krom » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:30 pm

1.1 was my favorate. I have 1.4 and 1.5 installed on my computer at the same time, just install D3 into a diffrent directory like "Descent3 (v1.1)" Patch it to 1.1 and run it, thats all you need.

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Post by kurupt » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:48 pm

I had 1.0 installed the other day, but I don't have D3 cd's anymore so I couldn't play it. I've got a full D3 install burned to a disc with missions and patches, but my actual D3 discs are gone. Unless someone has a 1.0 no-cd, I don't really have any option. Image
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Post by AceCombat » Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by kurupt:
<b> i wish dsl were available here, but it's cable or 56k.
</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

im surprised Verizon or Ohio Bell, doesnt offer DSL in Akron. a friend of my parents in Youngstown has DSL. but thats 45 mins away from you Image.
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Post by kurupt » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:00 pm

yeah, you would think I could get DSL here, seeing as how we had broadband (cable) before almost everyone else. You'd think that if they invested the money for that, that they could invest the money for DSL too for some competition.

Cleveland has DSL, Youngstown Does, hell, Canton does, but not us. bastards.
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Post by AceCombat » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:08 pm

hehe, okay kur, calm down. maybe if you get enough people to complain to Verizon and Ohio Bell they will get it there. Image
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Post by kurupt » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:54 am

sorry, i needed to vent. Image
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Post by BUBBALOU » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:56 am

DSL is hardware limited.....

if you are over 15k loop from CO = SOL until they decide to wire for FIBER that will take at least 6 years before they offer that type...

goto dslreports.com use prequal check your distance if it says no value you are way over of spec...get out of the boonies!
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Post by Krom » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:13 pm

Not entirely true bubba, I have DSL @ 20k feet from the CO. But dont expect Verizon or anyone else to try a DSL at this kind of range, my local phone company decided to give it a try and it worked.

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Post by Grendel » Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:47 pm

Also the CO needs the right software to do DSL -- upgrades are expensive so some phone comps decide no to upgrade all CO's.
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Post by kurupt » Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:27 pm

I live almost downtown and right by the university, I'm no where near the boonies. I've typed inmy zip code on every damned DSL check there is, and its always the same - nope!!
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Post by VonVulcan » Fri Jan 02, 2004 1:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by kurupt:
I live almost downtown and right by the university, I'm no where near the boonies. I've typed inmy zip code on every damned DSL check there is, and its always the same - nope!!</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Back when I got DSL, I used the webpage availability checker all the time and it said not avail... then I called a real person and found out it was. Only thing is, they used remote COs or Stingers and it added an extra hop... Would rather have stayed with what they called IDSL, not as much bandwidth but better performance. Now I have cable and it's the right choice in my local.
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Post by BUBBALOU » Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:56 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by [Grendel]:
Also the CO needs the right software to do DSL -- upgrades are expensive so some phone comps decide no to upgrade all CO's.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's Hardware Image
<i> The Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer (DSLAM)
To interconnect multiple DSL users to a high-speed backbone network, the telephone company uses a Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexer (DSLAM). Typically, the DSLAM connects to an asynchronous transfer mode (ATM) network that can aggregate data transmission at gigabit data rates. At the other end of each transmission, a DSLAM demultiplexes the signals and forwards them to appropriate individual DSL connections.</i>

/end snippet


Oh yeah Krom :
Copper Distance limitations are due to the intial fact the TELCO's have ISDN repeaters at every 18,000 and the 26 gauge wire type, that equipment is slowly being removed. Also they have been upgraded a major core of the wiring to 24 gauge, in fact some TELCOS have fiber in place ready to go into service.

But basically the distance limitations are regulated by the gauge of the wire and the equipment in the CO. Until a tech does a test for a dsl service on that line to see if it qualifies. DSL speed is unfortunately regulated by distance, quality is by wire conditions and type.

Now with the Agreement between Verzion and Bellsouth on the type of equipment for fiber that should be used as a standard has been finalized, we should the fiber that has been laid by both companies over the past few years going into wide spread service within the next 2-3 years:
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Post by JMEaT » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by kurupt:
I had 1.0 installed the other day, but I don't have D3 cd's anymore so I couldn't play it. I've got a full D3 install burned to a disc with missions and patches, but my actual D3 discs are gone. Unless someone has a 1.0 no-cd, I don't really have any option. Image</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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