Bahagad Outbreak on Ace

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:31 am

I've started playing the best single player multi-level campaigns with D2X-XL latest version, and in the first level of this campaign I ran very low on energy and resources, but I carried on without dying (my primary rule for playing Descent is to never lose a life), sometimes having to use flares to kill ITDs, and after a lot of precision, got up to the energy centre. That is just a perfect level!

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:10 pm

Personally, I find that the mark of bad level design. That or REALLY bad piloting.

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:00 am

The level after it had some bad design, which was going into an enclosed area where you get a powerup and immediately the floor under you opens and a badly designed robot reduces your shields by about 50 if you pilot perfectly (it kills you if you do it any other way), and there is an identical situation on the other side of the room also. (The robot scored 900 but it fires volleys of about 20 mercury missiles at a rate of 10 per second or so)

However, in level 1, I only got into that situation because I destroyed all the F.O.X.es and Blue Spiders behind the grating, and still had 80 shields and 2 energy points. On Ace skill, that is extremely good piloting for a first-time try. The correct tactic however would be to go to the energy centre ASAP.

Why don't you try it that way? Because you would probably find it \"impossible\".

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:01 pm

my SP levels do tend to be on the hard side. So I wouldn't recommend my missions to players who aren't good pilots. However, the energy center of level 1 is literally 3 rooms away from the start and well within reach of the player before they run out of energy. Maybe he just went the wrong way and didn't run into the energy center first?
Regardless, glad you are enjoying the mission set, it does get better. But my best work would have to be The Lost Levels though, which is somewhat of a sequel to Bahagad.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:48 pm

Ziqidel wrote:The level after it had some bad design, which was going into an enclosed area where you get a powerup and immediately the floor under you opens and a badly designed robot reduces your shields by about 50 if you pilot perfectly (it kills you if you do it any other way), and there is an identical situation on the other side of the room also. (The robot scored 900 but it fires volleys of about 20 mercury missiles at a rate of 10 per second or so)

However, in level 1, I only got into that situation because I destroyed all the F.O.X.es and Blue Spiders behind the grating, and still had 80 shields and 2 energy points. On Ace skill, that is extremely good piloting for a first-time try. The correct tactic however would be to go to the energy centre ASAP.

Why don't you try it that way? Because you would probably find it "impossible".

Impossible? no. Just unduely difficult. It's like setting up an adventure in AD&D to outright KILL the player characters 3 minutes into the game. A good level is about balance. I've played amany MANY levels where you don't have so much as a second upon spawn in before you're pummeled into oblivion by bots that are all facing you. after 10 years of those, forgive me if I find it a bit tiresome.

If you enjoy that kind of game play, that's cool. I, personally, do not.

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:41 am

I think it's just because most people are impatient, a bit like with playing D3 on insane. It didn't really take longer than 1 hour to complete, even though it said something like 40 hours in the timer (because D2X-XL's \"main bug\" is skipping between 6 minutes and over an hour every time you press alt-F3 then enter). But that was just because I loaded a few times to get the precision right.

It's just my way of playing levels first time - I try to get everywhere in the level, and if I am 100% certain my ship will be destroyed or be severely damaged with no hope of replenishing shields to an acceptable level, then I switch to Trainee for as short a time as needed and get rid of the \"impossible bit\".

Despite that, I have competed D1 First Strike and D2 COunterstrike & Vertigo on Insane without needing to switch to Trainee at all, and in order to destroy all robots in D3, some skill-switching is needed because on high skill, some of the robots dodge all energy projectiles from a distance, and Vauss/Mass Driver will run out before they are all blown up.

BTW, I've started creating a D2 campaign in DLE-XP based on all my previous attempts, and it's being made fast and going to be good...

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:44 pm

Well, Duper, with those specific instances where you enter a cube and are assaulted from all sides for a near kill if not an outright kill, to you that's bad level design. To me, that's just providing a temptation to a player that they can pass up. For example, in level 17 of Lost Levels, I give out the Earthshaker early by about 2 levels or so. So if you were interested in getting it, its up to the player to judge if the damage accrued is worth the cost of having a Earthshaker. Its all about cost and benefit which I leave the choice to the player. Yes my levels are difficult, they are not meant to be easy. If you don't like or have the skill to play difficult missions, then don't play them, let others enjoy them.

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:41 am

It was funny in Level 3 of Bahagad, where there is a choice of an Earthshaker or an extra life. There is a way of getting powerups in the next cube if it is in the middle of a normal-depth cube, if you go forward just enough. I got the Earthshaker that way (moving very slowly forward until it was in the arsenal) and then went back and it didn't count as \"going out of that cube\" so I just went and got the extra life as well

. (if that was impossible, though, then I would get anything rather than a life which only means an extra 10000 points at the end). I can't wait to get up to the Lost Levels (which I regard as the expansion pack for D1 because it's so good)

The Lion · Post by **The Lion** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:13 pm

Ziqidel wrote:[...] and in order to destroy all robots in D3, some skill-switching is needed because on high skill, some of the robots dodge all energy projectiles from a distance, and Vauss/Mass Driver will run out before they are all blown up.

On which level in D3 do you need to kill a robot at a distance using only energy primaries?

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:46 am

When you try to destroy all robots in the level, including those generated by MatCens, there will come a time where you run out of Vauss ammunition (which is never in an infinite supply), and throw all secondary weapons at them that you can afford, and they still won't all be dead. At that point, you have to use Primary Energy weapons, and in Mercenary Level 1, there is no EMD gun so you can't even use that

If you play like you're supposed to (unlike me usually), where you don't get everywhere in each level, then you can just go around dodging the enemy, instead of them dodging you. That's the way to take the complete glory of Insane skill - you don't have to kill the enemy, just do the objectives.

The Lion · Post by **The Lion** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:01 pm

Sorry, I forgot the emphasis on \"at a distance\"; why can't you just
move in on them and destroy them up close? Maybe you don't do
that because it takes too much time which makes it annoying. But
it is possible...

Ziqidel · Post by **Ziqidel** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:40 am

Yes, it is indeed possible, but with Threshers, which prove the biggest problem, it is very hard to not get hit by them up close, and if you don't then you will have only done a slight bit of damage, and then will have to get to a safe place again or else you run the extremely high risk of dying before you finish the job. It's much more tedious than killing a few ITDs with flares (and letting them crash into you)

But, if you first play the campaign without switching skills and only getting robots that are directly blocking your way, then you feel free to switch skills the next time you try it (of course this is only if you really have to), because you will have already done the level before without going off \"insane\".

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:21 am

Duper wrote:A good level is about balance. I've played amany MANY levels where you don't have so much as a second upon spawn in before you're pummeled into oblivion by bots that are all facing you. after 10 years of those, forgive me if I find it a bit tiresome.

If you enjoy that kind of game play, that's cool. I, personally, do not.

I have built a few levels like that, and there is always a way to escape that situation. You just have to figure it.

Situations like getting attacked from all sides when entering a certain location are considered traps by me, and for me it's a special pleasure to find out how to deal with it.

Actually I find Bahagad Outbreak (hard) very entertaining. After such a long time of playing Descent, it would be boring for me if it was easier. (Don't yet know Lost Levels).

DarkFlameWolf · Post by **DarkFlameWolf** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:39 am

well you'll find that Lost Levels is actually harder than Bahagad Outbreak. (at least to me it is, and I'm the damn creator! lol)