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 Post subject: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:01 am 
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is there any way to avoid homing missiles? those red super-hulks are killing me and flares don't work. what the hey?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:36 am 
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LOL yes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:24 am 
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but how do i avoid them?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:48 am 
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If you're playing D2 (I remember Vertigo had the red hulks in a few levels) stun them with a flash missile and then pound on them with plasma. Plasma stuns them so that they can't fire. And it holds them in one place, unlike lasers or spreadfire.

Even in D1 if you use plasma you should only have to take one hit at most (though I remember not having plasma on the first few levels with the red hulks). Vulcan cannon works too.

If there's cover make use of it. Take a few shots and then slide behind a wall. If you do it fast enough the homer will lose its lock on you. Just make sure not to take another shot until the homer has passed you (or it will regain its lock).

What version of the game are you using? It's much easier to dodge homers in Rebirth than in D2X-XL or just plain dosbox (in the original dos version homing ability was framerate dependent, so if you had over 30 fps, they would be nigh impossible to dodge).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am 
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The simplest way to dodge a homing missile is to fly towards the it and slide to the side at the same time as it gets close.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:01 am 
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Krom wrote:
The simplest way to dodge a homing missile is to fly towards the it and slide to the side at the same time as it gets close.


It doesn't work in D2X-XL unless you have lots of practice because the homing missiles have too high a turn rate (you'd need superhuman timing: if you haven't played in a while or if you're not so good a player you'll need to use cover in XL). Works in Rebirth though. And in D3 it's really easy this way :P.
(However there is a "hidden" way to do it in D2X-XL -- only in D2X-XL though. Omega cannon can destroy missiles in that version).


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Uh... you can do it in D2X-XL, it's just that if your timing (not quite superhuman unless I'm superhuman :o) is off you're SOL. Either that or there are some kinds of homing missiles that track much harder than others. I forget which is the case.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Sirius wrote:
Uh... you can do it in D2X-XL, it's just that if your timing (not quite superhuman unless I'm superhuman :o) is off you're SOL. Either that or there are some kinds of homing missiles that track much harder than others. I forget which is the case.


uhh... What's SOL? I think my timing is off because I'm me ;). Not the best player in existence (not even close to close).
And aren't you one of the best players in D2X-XL at multiplayer anyway? :P

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Confucius say: The best way to avoid damage is not to be there.


My strategy exactly (taking cover and sniping). There's usually enough cover in any level, even though it's not as obvious as in D3.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Krom wrote:
The simplest way to dodge a homing missile is to fly towards the it and slide to the side at the same time as it gets close.


x2 on this.

Alter-Fox wrote:
...homing missiles have too high a turn rate...


Deepthought, if you're playing the original Descent in something like DOSBox, that could be the problem.

There is a well-known bug in the original D1 and D2 that allows homing missiles to "turn on a dime" if the framerate is high.

To fix this, either get XL or Rebirth (the bug has been fixed in both), or cap the framerate.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:51 pm 
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If you read my post I was talking about D2X-XL specifically. If you're out of practice rebirth would be better for practise.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:07 pm 
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The bots are more resistant to stunning on higher difficulties I think. Neither plasma nor vulcan are able to hold a red hulk completely unable to fire.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:38 pm 
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I've done it as far up as hotshot in all versions, and I don't think Deepthought will be playing anything higher than that until he gets back in practise anyway.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
uhh... What's SOL?


Umm... :oops:
Rather than have to dodge the profanity filter I shall link to the description. First one is correct.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SOL

Alter-Fox wrote:
And aren't you one of the best players in D2X-XL at multiplayer anyway? :P


...there is that. Lot more to that than dodging homing missiles, though... I would really chalk this up to that I might not remember how well homing missiles track in D2X-XL. I always felt like the robots had better missiles than I did.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:24 am 
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How do you dodge homing missiles successfully on Ace and Insane without the afterburner? I can dodge them on Hotshot without much trouble, not only in the original Descent but also in Descent 2 and D2X-XL, but every time I try to do it on Ace I end up getting hit by all three. I've only used the \"fly towards them and slide at the last second\" method so far, unless you count just ducking around corners.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 am 
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minmay wrote:
How do you dodge homing missiles successfully on Ace and Insane without the afterburner? I can dodge them on Hotshot without much trouble, not only in the original Descent but also in Descent 2 and D2X-XL, but every time I try to do it on Ace I end up getting hit by all three. I've only used the "fly towards them and slide at the last second" method so far, unless you count just ducking around corners.

I've never been able to dodge many homing missiles in a standard sized D1/D2 tunnel, I usually rely on bends and corners to block the missiles path to me. However in a wide open space (at least in Rebirth) it is easy to dodge even all 6 homers on insane if you trichord and roll in a corkscrew pattern towards the mech. A good place to practice it is in the bigger spaces in D1 level 11 I think.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Trichording and rolling at the same time is easy?...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Not easy at first, but yes.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:43 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
Trichording and rolling at the same time is easy?...

I guess it depends on how good your controls are, but it only takes 3 buttons to trichord so tweaking the rudder a bit to turn it into a corkscrew roll should be pretty easy with any decent config.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Assuming I have a joystick and can use it... I have this coordination disability... It's not visible normally but it renders me unable to use a joystick with any degree of precision. And yeah, it's part of a bigger disability.
I own a joystick but I can't use it.
So I hate it when people say a joystick is the only "decent config".

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:59 pm 
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I recommend pounding at those red bastards with your L4 Quad Lasers. Although they push the hulks around, it's no issue when the're in a corner - what's most important they stun them and prevent them from firing (which is not the case when using Plasma). Dodging the missiles is not hard if you have an open space to maneuver, like in level 7's final room, or even level 6's. The trouble starts when you are in a tight corridor - then it's best to pick these guys off from a distance before they get a shot at you.

Both the Super Hulks and Vulcan Drillers can become less and less of an annoyance the more skilled you get.

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Xfing wrote:
...what's most important they stun them and prevent them from firing (which is not the case when using Plasma).


Are you sure about that?
In every version I've played (D1, D2, Vertigo, XL, Rebirth, dosbox, you name it) plasma stunned bots flawlessly. I've been using plasma on heavy hulks and lou guards for as long as I've been playing and it's always worked, except in D3 (with its reworked physics).
What difficulty level did you try plasma on? I've done this up to hotshot (and I haven't got far enough on Ace or Insane to try).

BTW, I was reading through the D1 Strategy Guide entry on Heavy Hulks and they recommend vulcan to stun them.
I'd recommend adding some missiles into the mix if you use their strategy.

And why has no one mentioned mega missiles? There are some places where smarts can be awesome against them too, if you know the robots are there.

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:20 pm 
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I usually fly toward the first volley and tri-chord out of the way at the last second, then I tri-chord around to their back and keep circling without giving them the change to face me while I pound them.

Unless it's not an open room. The I snipe and use stun weapons. Interestingly, I've shot homing missiles out of the air in D2X-XL with several weapons. Not including the omega. I'll have to give it a try next time.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:07 am 
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Xfing wrote:
pounding at those red bastards with your L4 Quad Lasers.


That's my exact job, I love do like that.

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:53 am 
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deathbeam wrote:
Unless it's not an open room. The I snipe and use stun weapons. Interestingly, I've shot homing missiles out of the air in D2X-XL with several weapons. Not including the omega. I'll have to give it a try next time.


Lol, in D2X-XL the omega looks so much cooler it makes up for its general uselessness (except against small robots). Now you want to use it more.
Though to be fair D2X-XL also makes it more useful - it has a longer charge too, though I think it uses more energy to recharge. In all the versions since 1.14 it's now the only weapon that can shoot down missiles - though its short range means you still take some radius damage, so if you're really low on shields it's not the way to go.



OffTopic: A fun strategy to use against any robot is to wait for them to shoot at you and then drop a few smart mines before you dodge. Imagine the robot's 'horror' as it wipes out all its allies and itself :D. To make it even better you score points for making a robot kill itself!
So fun. Try it in the first big room in Wenl mine, with all the PESTs from the matcen
.

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BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:18 pm 
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The omega is really useful for those tiny green "wasps" or whatever they are that spiders drop when you blow them up. They were giving me all sorts of trouble until I started using the omega. Best weapon in game for dealing with them.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:26 am 
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I still can't dodge homers without the afterburner. Plus, even in Rebirth, they seem to be more responsive and better at acquiring targets in D1 than they are in D2, both mine and the robots'.

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:52 pm 
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I'm pretty sure you're right. Even on the same difficulty level (usually Ace), I've found it much easier to dodge a homing missile with no burner in D2 than D1 - and considering the ship is supposed to be slower in D2, you'd expect the other way around.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Yeah homers lock on a hell of a lot tighter in D1. It works both ways though. You take a few more hits from the superhulks, but the better homers make it a lot easier to take out those quick little class one drillers.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
What difficulty level did you try plasma on? I've done this up to hotshot (and I haven't got far enough on Ace or Insane to try).


That's it right there. I've tried this on Insane and it doesn't really work. I think. Quad Laser 4s work great, on the other hand. It's hard to get close enough with all those homing missile volleys firing, though :P

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:21 pm 
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I guess bumping it around so it doesn't get the chance to face you would do the trick.
Still doesn't answer the obvious question of why four laser bolts should have more mass than however many vulcan shells you shoot at once. And the vulcan shells are explosive too!

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BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
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Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:27 pm 
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I have something to add about stunning robots. The only thing that works reliably is Plasma. Vulcan stuns robots on low difficulty, but robots will still fire at you on Ace and Insane. Lasers just knock them around, so don't bother. But even with Plasma, robots might still occasionally fire a few rounds on Insane if they have enough hit points. Lobbing a few secondaries in there cuts the time they have to do this.

As most of you know, D2 homers are way easier to dodge. The homers in D1 Rebirth were ridiculous, turning around corners in unbelievable ways. After months of trying I eventually gave up dodging them on Insane and turned to sniping, which made the game boring as hell. But apparently Zico has reduced their FOV or something. Either way, it's better than it was.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:52 pm 
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The problem with dodging homing missiles in Descent is there are very few rooms that are big enough to make it practical. I could easily dodge a homing missile in a wide open space, even dodging a whole barrage of 6 or more of them is pretty simple in a big enough room. But in a standard cube sized hallway it is pretty much impossible to dodge a whole barrage of them.

The other thing about homing missiles in D1 that was on top of the frame rate turn speed dependency was that at lower skill levels homing missiles moved slower, so they had more time to turn and follow you. So at tranee mode for instance a homing missile moved super slow, but at a high frame rate could turn ridiculously fast, to the point that shaking one was next to impossible unless you made it crash into the level geometry. The most common workaround for D1x was to cap the FPS at 30 so the missiles couldn't turn as quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:58 pm 
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I know that's why I gave up trying to get through a game in D1X a long time ago: I was at that lower difficulty, and I literally could not get out of the way of homers, which made every Medium Hulk a death sentence. One of these days I really need to go back and beat D1 legit.


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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:32 am 
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Top Gun wrote:
I know that's why I gave up trying to get through a game in D1X a long time ago: I was at that lower difficulty, and I literally could not get out of the way of homers, which made every Medium Hulk a death sentence. One of these days I really need to go back and beat D1 legit.


I'm in level 14 Insane atm. All I gotta say is that Descent 1 plays somewhat differently to D2, in that its challenges are allocated differently. You can get like 3+ Super Hulks at once as early as level 12, but it's either the level geometry or the available cloaks/invulns that make it possible and easy to dispatch them. So in D1 the rising difficulty owes the most to level geometry and powerup scarcity, while in D2 the robots are more balanced - Level 12 may not be instantly lethal for unskilled players like in D1, but instead of dealing instant death, it will dish out damage over time and wear you down. Also, the level design makes it harder to avoid the death traps, so the level must be completed on flying and shooting skill alone, rather than distance advantages or invulnerability impunity.

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:14 am 
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Medium Hulks are the ones that shoot concs ;)

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 Post subject: Re: how to avoid homing missiles
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:30 am 
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Yup avoiding the homing missiles is so damn hard you just need a the best timing which is also so hard to do.

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