Fair Robot Scores

Descent mission help and more WARNING: Spoilers inside!

Moderator: AceCombat

Post Reply
User avatar
Xfing
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Ringing Satan's Doorbell

Fair Robot Scores

Post by Xfing » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:08 pm

Playing through Naphtha's new mission pack demo I noticed that in one mission at least the green platformer robots were worth 2000 points. That reminded me of the same thing being done earlier in The Apocalyptic Factor, and it gave me the idea of making this thread.

While I don't really agree with the green platformer being worth 2000 points, the original 800 did seem a bit low. The score is usually the resultant of several factors, primarily durability and damage potential. Most robots in Descent did adhere to this formula and practically all in D2 did. There were some understandable deviations such as the Class 1 Driller who is quite soft, but no one will tell you its 1000 score is too low. But there were also plain errors or misjudgments as well, the most glaring of which being the cloaked version of the driller being worth only 600 - it's plain bullcrap of course. So what are your opinions on which bots out of all retro Descent game roster were given unfair scores? Also, what are your suggestions for appropriate scores for them based on their durability, speed, damage potential and overall annoyance factor?

Since I've done some tweaking to the game already when preparing the HAM for D1,5, I think I might as well do some reasonable adjustments to the scores as well.

My suggestions:

Cloaked Driller should go from 600 to 1200 - higher durability + cloaked, it still feels stingy
Green Platformer: 800 to 1300 - it has very high durability and insane damage potential
Gopher 200 to 400 - durability too high
Cloaked Hulk from 700 to 900 - it's way too dangerous for just 700 pts
Fervid: 400 from 750 - totally not worth that many points for obvious reasons
Cloaked Lifter: 750 from 1000 - they're not really that dangerous, it also matches how the cloaked diamond claw is 1,5x the regular one

Can't think of any others right now. Waiting for input :D
Descent 1,5: Level layouts done: 34/54 Secret level layouts done: 1/6
Naphtha
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by Naphtha » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:31 pm

The Green Spider from D2 should be added to that. Faster than the Green Platformer, even has a higher payload on Insane (6 concussion missiles per volley!) and the ability to leave offspring doesn't help at all. 1500, perhaps?
First Lieutenant for the Red Dragons in the Descent Rangers. Join our ranks today!
User avatar
Xfing
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Ringing Satan's Doorbell

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by Xfing » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:29 pm

Naphtha wrote:The Green Spider from D2 should be added to that. Faster than the Green Platformer, even has a higher payload on Insane (6 concussion missiles per volley!) and the ability to leave offspring doesn't help at all. 1500, perhaps?
They give what, 600? Yeah, that's also dramatically too low. But 1500 might be a bit high as these guys aren't that hard to kill from what I remember. Plus the spawn they leave are worth 300 pts each, which is substantial on its own when there are like 3 to kill. I think 1100 for killing the spider would be quite fair in light of that. It needs to be more than for the Sidearm, which is very sturdy but not that much in terms of offense.

Also what I feel now:

Class 2 Smelter: 800 from 1100 - such a high score not needed IMO
Fervid - actually should get a flat 500 points, as they are more durable than PIGs who are worth 400 - gotta keep things fair

Also it just occurred to me that 2000 for a green platformer is actually default for Descent 2.HAM. I think it's gotta be like the only robot score they changed for the second game...

Oh, and the Class 2 Heavy Driller should probably be pumped up from 850 to like 1100 at least, since contrary to what I used to think - it is actually even more durable than its predecessor, and its firing patterns are identical, so it's superior (well, only its cry and appearance are way less intimidating).
Descent 1,5: Level layouts done: 34/54 Secret level layouts done: 1/6
User avatar
LightWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:27 pm
Location: Kingdom of God

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by LightWolf » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:45 pm

Xfing wrote: Class 2 Smelter: 800 from 1100 - such a high score not needed IMO
I actually found the Smelter kind of intimidating. 950 perhaps?
The SPIKE, on the other hand, could be dropped from 1300 to 1000-1100. It was about as deadly as a Class 1 Drone with the "imagespace" cheat code on. (Ok, maybe a LOU Guard in standard play, but still :P )
Quick note: "imagespace" turns off robot fire.
Your friendly neighborhood diamond-loving light wolf.
(Who wouldn't love diamonds? They're so strong! Ever wonder why Diamond Claws did so much damage?)
Substance: 5/30 (6/35) Click here!
New Age Mod: Now hiring! Click here!
User avatar
Sirius
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5435
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by Sirius » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:42 am

Spike can do quite a lot of damage on Ace/Insane... those Omega "bullets" travel strangely and are quite hard to dodge. 1300 seems fairly appropriate in that situation - it's only slightly less than a Lou Guard, for a robot that is only slightly less dangerous (because no splash damage).
User avatar
Xfing
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1494
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:03 am
Location: Ringing Satan's Doorbell

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by Xfing » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:47 am

It's real hard to come up with actually fair scores, ones that scale well for harder robots etc. I thought that the green platformer score was altered by the authors, but turns out Parallax themselves altered it for some reason (good reason, but IMO the increase is a bit too big).

But yeah, I'd be inclined to try. Just don't want to rush it, so we probably should "design this by committee" :D
Descent 1,5: Level layouts done: 34/54 Secret level layouts done: 1/6
User avatar
Avder
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4924
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Moorhead, MN

Re: Fair Robot Scores

Post by Avder » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:32 pm

Spike is to D2 what the vulcan driller was to d1: a quick and sudden difficulty spike that would more often than not leave you dead if you don't know where they are and where to shoot around the corner. The bullets can track around corners too, and they have a range that's surprisingly long, especially compared to your own omega cannon.
Post Reply