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Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:12 pm
by Sirius
It is quite easy to dodge. But it's not really fixable unless you convince the Rebirth and/or Retro devs to modify the value or, more plausibly, add a toggle for it. Which doesn't feel like something players will opt into.

They wouldn't have to if a per-mission setting were added to either the level format or .mn2 file, but by that point you're heading off into D2X-XL-land. I don't expect either project would agree to incorporate it.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:36 am
by Xfing
Well, if D1 boss robot AI has been brought back, then why not this? :P

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:05 pm
by Sirius
The main reason I can think of is that it makes the in-built missions significantly harder than they were designed to be by Parallax. Rebirth historically has been very reluctant to mess with existing gameplay.

Since the in-built missions didn't use the D1 bosses, that change has less impact.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:20 am
by AlexanderBorisov
Sirius wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:05 pm
The main reason I can think of is that it makes the in-built missions significantly harder than they were designed to be by Parallax. Rebirth historically has been very reluctant to mess with existing gameplay.

Since the in-built missions didn't use the D1 bosses, that change has less impact.
If done on per-mission basis I don't see how it could break anything. Yet better, if one could have a new property for homing weapons (acquisition cone) to modify, but I guess it would break backward compartibility with old version because of saves and demos format. But I think it can be compensated by other means, for example to make a homer harder to dodge you can make it faster. Has nearly the same effect. Or go AF way - "waves of Red Hulks in a single room". But to me those easier to dodge homers make the game better, not worse. Who likes to hide and corner snipe everything like a tunnel rat? Also you can consider the room geometry where you place those homing missile bots, in limited spaces even those easy homers are not easy to dodge... Fourth solution is to use Defence Robots in later levels (like in AF), which were designed by Parallax but not used in stock missions, they fire like 5 homers, are fast, and have the plasma pulse, too.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:12 am
by Xfing
That's why we could just use a toggle, like an ini file parameter or something like that.

Oh, and Lou Guards are usually placed in wide open spaces in D2, so the impact on Counterstrike itself wouldn't be quite as big (can't speak for Puuma levels yet though, haha :D)

I'd really like to have this option because I miss D1's lethal difficulty. In D1 if you know how to play, you'll take no damage at all - but you make a mistake, you die. In D2 you'll take damage anyway, slowly. I really miss those moments of terror from D1. Though I should probably halt my judgment until Puuma sphere, as Boarsheads tend to do just that. Looking at it that way, D2 does provide a smoother and more adjustable difficulty curve for sure. Still, a toggle wouldn't hurt for all those of us who like things Nintendo hard. I was able to beat all of D1 on Insane without dying, and even though I'm currently struggling to do the same with D2, I still think I had more fun playing D1 just for the emotions. Being forced to be wary of Super Hulks at all times certainly was part of the experience.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:41 am
by Sirius
Yeah but the question is how to do it on a per-mission basis. The most natural way would be to modify the weapon type format, but then you need to patch users' .HAM files, and that would stop other versions of D2 from loading them. So you'd need some extra files somewhere that only Rebirth understands... something like what D2X-XL did with e.g. its .lgt/.clr files.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:48 am
by Xfing
I think an ini file parameter would be the best solution, just like the old -legacyhomers parameter.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:03 pm
by Alter-Fox
Could be, and it's nice to dream, but I don't think it's likely to actually happen -- at least not in time. May have to settle for the damage upgrade. And remember those trainee players probably can't even dodge D2's homers.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:05 am
by Xfing
Alter-Fox wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:03 pm
Could be, and it's nice to dream, but I don't think it's likely to actually happen -- at least not in time. May have to settle for the damage upgrade. And remember those trainee players probably can't even dodge D2's homers.
I actually got word from kp (Zico's new handle perhaps?) that it could be implementable on a per-mission basis.

https://forum.dxx-rebirth.com/showthread.php?tid=1029

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:32 pm
by Alter-Fox
How soon though? Our own progress is, I think, faster than we expected.

Re: Lou Guards vs Super Medium Hulks

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:41 pm
by Xfing
No idea. I don't think it's that essential though, it's not something that couldn't be implemented retroactively afterwards anyway