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All this talk about old clans.

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:09 pm
by TigerRaptorFX
I've seen this page before and it took all most two hours to find it again. But this should clear some things up.

Updated 8/6/2017.

Since the link is dead, courtesy of

History of descent
On Kali

The following was written by The founder of The Descent Rangers, current IDL Policy director, genuine 'Old Timer' and all around great guy, Sirian.

12/3/97 Written by Sirian

Here is a rundown of all the major Internet Descent groups.

The Official Descent Ladder was founded some time after Kali came out in late 1995. This was THE spot where the skilled players played, until it lost prestige due to scandals about possible cheating by ladder members, including the ladder adminstrator and top-ranked player, AaronB. If you have never heard the name Aaron Brinton, then you qualify as a Kali Newbie as I define the term. I still remember the day that kLUB_mARCUS beat Aaron in a ladder match and took the top spot on the ladder, then got trounced in the rematch a few days later. Marcus is now an orb player and can be found at the D server from time to time. Aaron has stopped using his Kali account. He was a driving force behind Kahn, Kali's only significant direct rival. Aaron resigned from the ladder after the hubbub even though he was innocent of cheating. He later decided to reset the database, and this did not go over well with many players; the official ladder never recovered. Some players WERE in fact cheating! , via ping floods and other methods, and some folks (accounts differ on who they were) impersonated Aaron on several occasions. This happened during the time that Jay Cotton had taken down the registration of nicks, where the first person to log on with a nick got possession of that nick until he logged off. Gunr can tell you about that one: I remember the day he got fed up with playing tag over the name Gunner, and I suggested to him switching to Gunr, which he did. Jay went back to registered nicks largely as a result of what happened to AaronB. As for the fate of the official ladder, it no longer exists.

The DTF (Descent Task Force) was the first Kali Descent league. A few Rangers were members of DTF, including Cemada, Jandor and Cyberchill. Other prominent DTF members included Bman and Neitzl. The DTF was most active around the time that Descent 2 was released, then faded into obscurity and eventually merged into the PPG.

TFTDFS (The First Tactical Descent Fighter Squadron) was founded at about the same time as DTF, but was much slower to take off. Except for the founder and his personal friends, no games were played by this league. I (Sirian) joined TFTDFS via a websearch on Descent, and tracked down both Kali and IHHD through links on the D-Squad page. Other members of D-Squad included KoolBear (under his original nick, which SHALL go unnamed by me =) and Share!, and several members of the atLANta crew. When Cem resigned from DTF and led a defection of DTF members to TFTDFS, and when the D-Squad "Admiral" appointed him XO, Cem tried to jump start TFTDFS into activity. He did so by flaming his former leader in the DTF (the D-Squad's rivals) and trying to start what amounted to a clan war between the two groups. His actions got him resoundingly flamed by the DTF's XO, Bman, in, which at the time was THE forum for the game. I defended Cem in the newsgroup, putting out Bman's fl! ame and then flaming him back in a way he could not put out, and that began the relationship between Cemada and myself. When we resigned from TFTDFS to start the Rangers, my rival, Darkminion, won the XO spot with D-Squad, but managed to hold things together for just a couple weeks. TFTDFS folded before the Rangers played their first official games.

The PPG (Pyro Pilots Guild) are the oldest surviving internet Descent group. They were formed on IRC and played their first games using the old program IHHD (Internet Head to Head Daemon) which allowed only for one on one games. Only the oldest of the old remember that thing. :) Many of the PPG are old timers, highly skilled, who hang out on IRC and play mostly one on one games. Some of these guys are stand-off-ish, respecting only folks who travel in their circle, and some of them are rather cocky; but most will respect you if you show both flying skill and a knowledge of unwritten ettiquette prominent among folks with very low Kali Serial numbers. This can be a rough environment, very much sink or swim, and accounts for why many of the newer PPG members do not remain with the group for long. Although they do sometimes track game results, and maintain a pilot rating on most members, I would not call the PPG a league. Karash has described them as, "The bar you go to hang out at in between venturing into the mines."

The Rangers were founded on May 1, 1996. The Rangers were the very first Descent TWO group. All previous groups began as D1 groups. The first scored games were played on May 17, the first Associates were invited to join on May 25, and the Rangers opened for business on June 10. I resigned as Commander at the end of August and (for a while) stopped playing Descent. Cemada has been the Commander since then, except for a brief hiatus in which first Swazook (as XO in charge) then Vyper (as Cmdr) ran the show.

The Wildcards were founded in mid May of 1996. The Cards are the only significant league besides the Rangers ever to form on Kali. Wildcards founder IamtheGre has often made the claim that he was one of the original Rangers, but this is not true. He did have ties to Jandor and was a member prospect, but he never was a part of the group. The Wildcards began playing in late May, at about the same time that the Rangers were playing their first games. Except for the Rangers, Wildcards, and now the DMC, the rest have been either guilds or clans, or have failed to maintain operation for more than a short length of time. The Wildcards have departed from their original multiplayer scoring system and now rate players primarily via head to head games, in a ladder format.

Cases Ladder began with C&C (Command and Conquer) at the Netertainment server, and slowly expanded to become the largest gaming ladder in the world. Descent (both 1 and 2) was added in July or August of 1996. I was a member of Cases Ladder for two months, playing the game Deadlock (right after I had resigned from the Rangers and quit playing Descent), and I can say that Case (who lives only 30 miles from me) does his very best to maintain quality control on his ladder. With a group so large, it is impossible to keep an eye on everyone. So the lack of class sometimes exhibited by Cases members is due, IMO, to the lack of pride and group spirit exhibited by the members themselves. In effect, Cases Descent ladders are much more a collection of individual players playing under one system than anything resembling an actual group. While many Cases players are good sports, many others are glory-seekers, to whom rank means far more than is healthy. Some of these folks can be truly obn! oxious, and thus Cases Ladder has a very mixed reputation in the Descent community. Despite this, Cases Descent ladders boast the largest membership count of any Descent groups ever.

The DMC (Dark Mavericks Collegiate) are a relative newcomer to the realm of Kali D groups. They are the only major guild to emerge from the endless ranks of clans to an undisputedly legitimate status. The DMC regularly maintain a presence at the D server. It seems that at least a few of them can always be spotted in chat. I recently gave permission to DMC founder Vlider to use my KP/GP scoring system for the DMC. Whether this will lead to any sort of interleague relationship between Rangers and DMC, I do not know.

ACE was a short-lived league based primarily on Ranger rules and traditions, in pale imitation. I did not get to know many of the ACE players. ACE emerged at about the same time as DMC and was their rival for its duration.

GOP is the largest and most prominent of the clans. I am acquainted with a few of the GOP, but not nearly as well as I know the leaders and members of other groups. As a result, I don't really know very much about them. Their membership plays primarily on Cases Ladder and those who do are all highly ranked in that system.

IDL, the Invitational Descent Ladder, was founded in April of 1997. The IDL is only the second group (besides the Rangers) to implement and exercise a rigorous admissions policy, requiring recommendations from current members for new members to be admitted. (I am not counting clans who required a rite of passage). IDL's vision is to create a platform that brings together only the most skilled players in an organized fashion to compete one on one. Karash, the IDL founder, convinced me to give his ladder a try even though I had always despised Descent ladders, mostly for the way that egos ran rampant and that matches were handled. I actually enjoyed IDL enough that I accepted Karash's invitation to join his staff and have since been a major contributor to its growth and development. The IDL recently underwent reorganization, including a two tier setup, more rigorous admission policy, plus a new rating system designed and flow charted by me. As of this writing, I am one of four p! layers who have held the top rank on the IDL, and it has grown to include over a hundred members.

Major local groups include:

SFDL (South Florida Descent League). The SFDL has some awesome players. LAN play hones the skills the most (with solo play a distant but important second) when it comes to pure flying and coordination. Kali play involves lag and other net anomalies that must be consciously adjusted for if you are to succeed as a pilot. As a result of playing so much without the weirdnesses of the net, nearly all the members of major local LAN groups are also top notch players, and SFDL was the first of the major local groups. I am only lightly acquainted with these guys, so I can't tell you much about their history, but I am soon moving to Florida and will be joining their ranks once there.

The atLANta Crew. Most of these guys are personal friends with one another and they play WAY too much Descent. As a result, if you run across one of their games on a quiet server some night, and join in, be prepared to face a nest of hornets. Every last one of them is a tri-chording fool, aggressive beyond measure and used to coping with the circumstances of large games. They LOVE the fusion cannon, and have coined ALL the historic fusion quotes passed around on Kali, including the one postered on the walls in Spaz's new D2 mission, Muses, "Bow to fusion D2 Boy!" Not even a convention of Ranger elite create as stiff competition as this crew does. The ONLY times I have finished large games with more deaths than kills (this year) have been games that involved at least two from the atLANta crew. And though I had bad blood with two former atLANta members, Darkminion and Mobious, back in the days of TFTDFS, these guys are no longer part of the crew. I got to meet the atLANta guys a! t the Nov 97 Dfest in NY, and they are a fun bunch. Their members either won or shared in first place in every category at the fest except for 4 on 4 teams, where they placed second.

NYDP, New York Descent Players. These guys are based in upstate NY and meet often to play LAN games. If you ever wondered why the word "mugging" is associated with New York, these guys will be happy to demonstrate.

Tri-State Gaming Krib. Also based in NY, this group is founded and run by my old buddy Descentile, who is one of the coolest cats around. The Krib and NYDP are allies as well as rivals, and often attend each other's LAN parties. The Krib team won the 4 on 4 team tournament (70-64) at the Nov 97 NY Dfest in what may be the most memorable multiplayer game ever played.

ROX. The ROX clan boasts several members who are Kali old timers, including the former #2 player from the official ladder, a guy named Scoundrl who used to pummel AaronB until Aaron became top notch. I do not know much about the group itself, as of yet, except that most of them live in the northwest US.

It is no coincidence that members of these LAN groups are top ranked players on the IDL, since I've already said, LAN play hones the skills better than anything else, and LAN group members play LOTS of Descent.

Major Clans include:

GADA was a secret clan that included only members with Kali serial numbers under 1000. They used to hang out at Central in a channel called ShaDowS.

There was also a secret clan made up only of folks with ISDN or T1 connections. They too stayed off the beaten path, but failed to stay off the public sockets, so some of you may remember seeing games titled "ISDN+" or "ISDN only" in olden times. This was almost always an instance of this secret clan in action.

The Death Clan, {}. This clan was founded by Satan{}, who also is known as SPREAD97. SPREAD is one of the old bad boys of Kali. He can be patently obnoxious and is widely despised, but is a skilled pilot and a real character who can be fun to play with if you don't let him upset you. SPREAD has often been named with the likes of Zod and Vader (two obnoxious cheats who got caught ping-flooding on Kali -- cheating -- and had their serials revoked; who have sued Jay Cotton and have been the subject of much (unwarranted) attention in the no-longer-prominent newsgroup). SPREAD doesn't really belong in that crowd; as far as I know he does not cheat, but he is often his own worst enemy when it comes to his reputation. His clan faded away eventually, but he has recently begun an effort to start it up again, under a new name. His acceptance to the IDL caused a mass exodus of resignations by other members, who are unimpressed with his slow evolution from obnoxious to a! player who deserves respect for more than his skills (a journey with ground left to be covered). SPREAD flies under many names, but his style never changes. Anyone familiar with his macro overkill and his ego and his humor can easily spot him in games. A large part of the IDL reorganization was aimed at bringing back members who quit, some who quit over SPREAD's joining and others who quit over other quality-control measures.

DA. I don't remember much about the DA, except that it was eventually swallowed by the DMC. Several Rangers are former DA members who may know the history of the group.

The D1 Clan, |} This clan emerged in response to D2 when D2 first came out. Several players, mostly skilled vets, reacted poorly to some of D2's new toys, especially the earthshaker, afterburner, helix and smart mines. Most new levels had ALL the weapons. In fact, Karash's Speed Racer Pro was the first good level to come out without a shaker in it. Even Caress of Steel had a shaker in its first version, and Gwar (who designed that lev) hates shakers. The D1 clan was really big for a month or two, even luring my friend Lupo into its ranks. (He wouldn't join the Rangers because he absolutely HATED D2).

The WTF clan, . This clan never grew large, but it's still around, thanx to founder Saruman and his small but loyal membership. These guys are good players.

There have been so many clans over the years that I may have forgotten some that made a brief splash. These are the ones I DID remember, so I will let that speak for itself.


Group: Official Descent Ladder

Founded: fall 1995

Type: Ladder

Game: D1

Status: Disbanded

Pyro Divider

Group: DTF

Founder: "Admiral" NRG

Founded: winter 1996

Type: League

Game: D1, D2 added April 1996

Status: Absorbed into PPG, fall 1996

Pyro Divider


Founder: Dav-eed

Founded: winter 1996

Type: League

Game: D1, D2 added April 1996

Status: Disbanded summer 1996

Pyro Divider

Group: PPG

Founder: Danek

Founded: March 1996

Type: Guild

Game: D1, D2 added June 1996

Hangout: IRC EFNet #ppg, #descent

Status: Healthy

Pyro Divider

Group: The Descent Rangers

Founder: Sirian

Founded: May 1, 1996

Type: League

Game: D2

Hangout: Rangers Kali server

Current Leader: Cemada (original Ranger XO) (former TFTDFS XO)

Status: Healthy

Yes, a pyro Divider

Group: Wildcards

Founder: IamtheGre

Founded: mid May 1996

Type: League (changed to Ladder summer 1997)

Game: D2

Hangout: Wildcards Empire Kali server

Current Leader: "Emperor" Zonerie

Status: Healthy

Pyro Divider

Group: Cases Descent Ladders

Founder: Case

Founded: July or August 1997

Type: Ladder

Game: D1 and D2, originally mixed, now separate.

Status: Healthy

Pyro Divider

Group: DMC


Founded: Nov 1996

Type: Guild/League

Game: D2 (mostly)

Hangout: ->Descent<- Kali server, IRC EFNET #dmc-hq

Status: Healthy

Pyro Divider

Group: ACE

Founder: (uncertain)

Founded: winter 1997

Type: League

Game: D2

Status: Disbanded, winter 1997

Pyro Divider

Group: GOP

Founder: TheAnarchist

Founded: Dec 1996

Type: Guild

Game: D1 (mostly)

Hangout: SSI Kali server

Status: Healthy

Pyro divider

Group: IDL

Founder: Karash

Founded: April 1997

Type: Ladder

Game: D1 and D2

Hangout: IRC EFNet #300baud. Members play most often at SSI Kali server.Hangout: IRC EFNet #300baud. Members play most often at SSI Kali server.

Status: Healthy

Pyro Divider

I hope this offers players a sense of perspective on where their groups fit in Kali Descent history. IMO, the Rangers are the most organized league, providing far and away the best multiplayer gaming environment for players. They are the ONLY group that ever has, and perhaps ever will, embrace all modes of play in Descent. As far as skill goes, they have always valued honesty and sportsmanship FIRST, and thus may be outclassed in overall skill by a handful of other groups; but even so, not by a lot. In terms of large games, only the LAN groups have them clearly outmatched. The rest play mostly one on one. As for ladders, the IDL provides the best overall environment for players, valuing skill first but also placing a high premium on class and maturity. Among the guilds, PPG is oldest and has always been the standard bearer. And as for the LAN groups, SFDL has set the standard there, and everyone else has followed in their footsteps.

I am proud to have created the Ranger identity and designed the Ranger system. If imitation is the highest form of flattery, then the Rangers, to one degree or another, have been flattered at least some by just about every group out there except the PPG. Ranger success will continue for as long as they represent the highest ideals of fair play, honor, integrity and humility. Trash talking is for the lame. Rangers let their performance speak for itself. I am also proud of my contributions to the IDL, which has flourished tremendously and provides a quality gaming environment unprecedented among ladders.

Special thanks to Ranger Commander Cemada, who has carried the torch for far longer than I did. The Rangers are still around as a group ONLY because Cem has done the work to make it so. Thanks also go out to Karash, Danek, IamtheGre, and Vlider, for their contributions to this compendium.


Founder of the Descent Rangers

IDL Policy Director

Thank you sirian

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:32 pm
by kurupt
i think vlider posted that not long ago...

shout outs to {} though! (i think im actually the only one here who was in that group)

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:59 pm
by TigerRaptorFX
You know now that you said that. This link was brought up before but under this thread. ubb/Forum20/HTML/004559.html

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:49 am
by Tyranny
To answer one of the questions on the other thread about the oldest Descent groups, The PPG is even older then MS and has existed before the Rangers and before the Wildcards.

As in regards to Sirian's list which is really old as well, here are some modern additions...

Stan's clan later became X then reverted back to the Death Clan {} then eventually became MI (Murder Inc).

There was DarkForce started by WaRRioR and ChaosWing that came around sometime in 1998 as a reformation of a previous DarkForce that was shortlived. The two of these guys later became instrumental in the overall look of the Untamed Force.

Sometime in late 1998 or early 1999 several members from the Dark Mavericks Collegiate {DMC} (Nazereth, Storko, Kicker, d2hound & Wareagle) moved on to form TR (The Renegades) which up until the last year or two still existed.

There was TOR (The Old Republic) which started in 1997 as a small LAN group which then later moved to Kali in 1998 and enjoyed moderate success. They never fully recovered from prominent players making a mass exodus to UF which leads me to...

Though GOP (Gods of Pain) didn't evolve into anything new, when it ended a few of the members left and formed/joined UF (Untamed Force) which boasted some of Descents elite pilots of the time. UF has seen a great drop off in activity much like the next group of Descenters.

During TOR's decay in 2000 the basic ideals it was founded on were adopted by The Wolfpack Descent League which was founded by myself. |W| in its prime also boasted some of Descents top players. Pilots whom were top players on the IDL and UDL gaming ladders. Though the classic descents have died down substantially, |W| is still active.

Somewhere inbetween here, around the same time period there was another group that formed and had very talented pilots that eventually ended up elsewhere by the name of moc, if I remember right. This group had high ranking Ladder members as well but due to internal conflicts (as always) the group ended up disbanding.

Around the same time the |CM| (Chicken Maniacs) started. A very un-organized but very loyal and dedicated group of players whom have essentially out-lasted most other Descent clans on the Kali D server of the same era. They still represent the most numbers on the Descent server of any clan still active.

There were a couple more that showed up and then disbanded in the last two or so years, the Descent Invaders, and some others that I can't think of off the top of my head.

There were more clans out there that I'm forgetting to mention I'm sure, some of them were carried over from Kahn but didn't last much longer once they got to Kali. Just thought I'd throw this in..

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:32 am
by Lothar
Chicken Maniacs are perhaps the most fun and least self-conscious clan I've ever played against...

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:02 pm
by Avder
I claim to be the person who finally shoved the knife through TOR's dying corpse Image

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 4:01 pm
by Tyranny
I would have to agree with Lothar about the Chickens. Over the last year I've found myself playing quite a few more FFA games with their ranks then I thought was possible at this point in time on Kali. Several of them also play D3 on Kali via TCP/IP P2P.

oh, and Vader, I think that honor goes to Link & Retro Image

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:25 pm
by kurupt
hehe, i was one of the fags who bolted from TOR for UF... but i was like 14 or 15 (?) back then. what do you expect form someone who needed to assert his manhood? Image

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:25 pm
by Capm
Tyranny, you are mistaken.

Why do I have to keep re-iterating myself? I'm not the second or third person to command MS.. I Founded MS.

I'm done with this. You people can believe whatever you want to make yourselves happy. I know when I founded the Midnight Squadron.

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:28 pm
by Avder
Ty, Link did virtually nothing and Retro quit a good month and a half before TOR died.

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:35 pm
by kurupt
and this is something you're proud of... why?

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:39 pm
by Avder
Why is there a bragging war between International Falls, MN and Embarrass, MN for the title of "The Nations Icebox"? Why do people do really stupid things to get in the Guiness book of world records? Who knows. But I killed TOR, so there. Image

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:17 pm
by Tyranny
Don't get your panties in a twist there Capm Image I might be wrong but even before Sirian's little summary of Kali of the time I remember people talk of PPG being the first, but we could all be wrong too, so don't worry about it.

Who came first is of very little importance, what they contributed to the community is what really matters. Most of those clans back then all showed up at relatively the same time anyways with maybe a few months seperation between all of them.

My word isn't gospel, far from it, lol. If you know better, roll with it, who cares what I think right?

Vader, you have a short memory Image No one person was responsible for the demise of The Old Republic, rather a series of events transpired that lead to the overall decay of it. Its stagnation forced me to leave and take with me the people who wanted to follow and hopefully create something better. Those that remained either left Kali completely, continued to let TOR linger, or finally joined |W| or another clan in the long run.

I do feel that if LordRaven had had more time to dedicate guiding the group as he saw fit, being that TOR was his clan, things might have been different. You can't really blame him though, real life takes priority and he just couldn't afford to grant us anymore time then that of which he did give us.

Instead there were too many of us putting too many ambitious goals ahead of us that nobody was really interested in. Too many people tugging in too many different directions isn't a good thing. I realize that now, looking back on it, and after the conflicts I had with Retro when LordRaven had made me 2nd in command. The only thing I regret is that when it was all said and done Retro hated me and that hurt, because I genuinely considered him one of my closest friends and instrumental in helping me become the level designer that I was.

Stuff happens....the only thing to do is make the best of them and move on and I think for the most part we all managed to do that in some form or another.

Although some of you seemed to become more distant and bitter after that whole thing and after you guys had left |W| because you weren't playing Descent anymore. You guys being you, kur and Plat. Nitrate aka Hypnos!s aka RapToR (or whatever) even became all weird after he went to UF. *shrug*

The only people I know of that came out of that relatively the same was Army and perhaps myself but time changes all of us eventually, was probably just time. oh well, nuff of this mush Image

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:02 am
by Jeff250 (a few from my memory):
DWL: Descent Warriors League
DDO: Divine Descent Order
DSF/Solo's: Descent Solo Federation (LOL@THEM!)

Then there were all those other ones, like *Storm and Wang...

But anyways, > Kali!!1!

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:24 am
by kurupt
man, no way. the only real competition was on kali. anyone who was any good on or kahn came to kali for that reason.

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:55 am
by Vlider

PPG is the oldest. they were formed before kali.

there were a dozen other small factions around the time of the first "descent clan wars", but those were the big 4.

for some reason i miss (ACE). they were entertaining.

and actually the ppg are still around in irc on efnet #ppg

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:43 pm
by TigerRaptorFX
and I thought PPG died years ago.

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:49 pm
by Tyranny
Yo Vlidmon Image

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:55 am
by TOR_LordRaven
Wow - 4 years later and I am responding to this thread.

Just so everyone knows. TOR never Died. TOR Started as a LAN Based gaming group, and it still is. Its just the last active members left Kali, there was no one left to support it.

TOR is very much still alive ;-)


Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:07 am
by Foil
Wow... lots of Descent clan history from long before I ever started playing online. Makes the few die-hard teams still around look pretty lonely.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:25 pm
by Krom
Wow you really dug up an old thread.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:30 pm
by TOR_LordRaven
speaking of digging things up...
pulled this from an old backup and decided to post it online ;-)

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:15 am
by Tyranny

Hows it going LR? LONG time no see :)

Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:00 am
by TOR_LordRaven
Not bad at all my friend - not bad at all :-)

How are things with you?

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:36 pm
by Money!
This thread is awesome.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:15 am
by Capm
Gaw dang this is an old post.


Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:59 am
by TOR_LordRaven
Hey Capm, hows things?

I see you on AIM from time to time, but you never respond ;-)

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:08 pm
by Zuruck
Still partial to OSS.

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:52 pm
I was a Wildcard shortly after they founded, never strayed like alot of people did, made Suncoast 2, even tho it was 3500 miles from my current home, it was literally 5 minutes from where I grew up and my parents still live. Ironically Suncoast was the last time I ever got in my Pyro :o I came home put away My \"D\" cd and never played again. cant tell you why either :roll:

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:33 pm
by d0ggY
I didn't bother to read everything posted but I did notice the arguments regarding the \"oldest\" clan.

The answer is actually a bit more complicated. The PPG were never a \"clan\" and made it quite blunt that they did not want to be associated as one. However, it *was* a very tight-knit group of Descenters who valued ethics, etiquette, and the game above all else. However, if you are arguing that it was the first major organized group, then yes, it was in fact the first. I joined sometime in '96 and by then it was WELL established while the other groups were in their infancy.

That being said, there was one other group no one mentioned (and with good reason) that pre-dates every other group, possibly with the exception of PPG - although it would be a close call. I first heard of PPG sometime in '96 and joined around Xmas that year but by then, I'd already faced off against this other group numerous times. Sadly, I cannot remember it's name but it was a small group of guys who were quite renowned on the ODL and Kali in general. Guys such as Magnum, Carlos, Cyberdemon, and the infamous Wyvern (I think otaY and SCREAM were in this later on?). IMO, they were the true first \"badasses\" of the game. If any of you ever got the chance to play a team game against CDemon and Wyvern, you would not forget it.

Needless to say, their \"group\" was not really any type of organized 'clan' so it's probably fair to discount them in this elders race. The same could be said for Voyager and Dopl who were in that foreign \"group\" of theirs heh ...

Hmm, for some reason as I think back, I seem to recall that they were actually <nickname>{} ...the first ones before Stan came along. But again, this is far too long ago to remember. Maybe someone else can remember 12-13 years ago better than I!

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:46 pm
by CritterB
That's strange Cuda because I was done after Suncoast 2 as well. I've talked with Bama and Suncoast 2 was it for him too. I had a great time there but that was the end for me. Weird.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:36 am
by TigerRaptorFX
Speaking of OSS. What ever happen to Realm? I haven't seen him in ages.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:03 am
by TOR_LordRaven
I don't think it really matters when a Clan, Squad, Gaming Group, or what have you started. It is kinda pointless to argue over it - but it is fun to talk about :-)

TOR started in 96 as a LAN group, then came to Kali in 97... stuck around for a few years, then went back to being a LAN group.

The real reason TOR \"died\" on Kali was because real life caught up with me. I just didn't have time to support it, and as Tyranny mentioned ohh.. 4 years ago on this same thread - there were too many chief's and not enough indians.


Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:07 pm
CritterB wrote:That's strange Cuda because I was done after Suncoast 2 as well. I've talked with Bama and Suncoast 2 was it for him too. I had a great time there but that was the end for me. Weird.
ya weird,
I played VERY regular almost every night and weekend. when suncoast was announced I was pumped. I went to Suncoast and finally got to put faces to the names after all those years of playing, Bama, Buzz, Warlord, Redbone, ZappaFan, and if memory serves Vlider also (its been a few years)I had a GREAT time, and it was strange how when I got home I had lost ALL desire to play Descent anymore.

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:56 pm
by Money!
Went out with a bang. Like you should have.

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:06 am
by fliptw

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:31 pm
by Sllik
Holy necrothreads, Batman! I've never seen such an old thread get dug... ok, that's a lie. i've done it myself, several times. ;p

That initial history link doesn't seem to mention an ISDN/Cable-only ladder I participated in, long ago. What was the name of it? Am I thinking of Case's? Or another? It's the only one I ever participated in, which is probably why I still remember it.

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:41 pm
by d0ggY
It definitely wasn't Cases. As far as I can remember, there were the following (in rough chronology):

1. Official Descent Ladder
2. Original 1-tier IDL
3. Cases (which then split into D1 and D2)
4. Two-Tier IDL
5. At some point here, there was a Kahn ladder set-up
6. UDL (Ultimate Descent Ladder)

And then of course various intra-clan ones.

That being said, I do vaguely recall there being another ladder, which may be the one you're talking about - but I was stuck with dial-up from '94 until '97/98 so I definitely wouldn't have paid attention to it.

Anyway ...are you the same Sllik that had the pictures of all the Descenters on his website waaayy back?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:46 pm
by d0ggY


Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:03 pm
by Sllik
d0ggY wrote:Anyway ...are you the same Sllik that had the pictures of all the Descenters on his website waaayy back?
Yuppers, the very same. The Kali Gallery. ;)