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 Post subject: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:04 pm 
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DBB Ace
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I don't know why, but I started working on this model before I ran any tests to see if I could get it into D3. (Okay, that's not true, I ran a test using a simple sphere which was successful save the kink I'm about to ask about.)

Image

I'm modelling in 3ds Max 2011. Before exporting, I run the MaxOOFutility.ms script utility, welding all redundant vertices, and assigning materials. I then export as an ASCII scene export, newship.ase, and use 2orf.exe to convert the ASE into an Outrage Room File, newship.orf. From here I open it with SuperSheep's OOF Editor v1.518, and the end result is... unique. Because 2orf can't handle the entire model at once, I'm having to process this one submodel at a time. I've started with the fuselage, which is texture mapped (and I'll touch on that in a moment.)

Fuselage in:
Image

Fuselage out:
Image

I'm not too worried about the orientation change, I got that figured out, and know how to turn the ship so it's properly aligned later; no problems there. What has me bummed out, though, is the way this model is appearing in OOF Editor. The mesh displays properly; it's all there in all its proper glory, but when I turn on the color/texture rendering methods I get this big, flat colored shape that looks like it could be the fuselage of my fighter. Worthy of note is that when I tell OOF Editor to recalculate the normals, they all point the same direction. O_o I'm not sure what that's all about. Here, let me go get a screenshot of that.

Image

Finally, as I promised to touch upon texture mapping, textures aren't transferring in, either. I mapped and collapsed the UVW map in 3ds, applied the material, named the material wolfgxfuselage, and pointed it to wolfgxfuselage.tga. Unfortunately, there's no reference of material or file in OOF Editor when I load what you see above.

Thanks for your time, guys.


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:31 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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The new coming version of the Descent3 Editor 3ds-importer will import your modell with uv-coords and materials now.
It's near finished and tested by a 3dmax user these days.
There are some rules to follow which will be discribed inside a coming tutorial.
All the Descent3 ogf files are converted into tga files and will be offered for 3d-max users then.
Custom textures will be possible too. Sure there are some rules needed for this too.

Once imported as orf you will be able to convert the file to oof with the OOF-Editor then.

But for your OOF-Editor problem now:
Did you convert your tga texture(s) into ogf file(s)?
Did you create the needed gam file for these custom textures?
Did you point to that gam and to the ogf file(s) location inside the OOF Editor preferences?


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:31 pm 
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DBB Ace
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Yes, the texture's name is WolfGXFuselage.ogf. There's an entry in extra.gam under WolfGXFuselage that points to it. OOF Editor has been told to look in d3.hog, extra.gam, and my custom ogf path of the Descent 3 root directory.

Glad to hear about the converter coming, though. Does that mean I can continue to work on model(s) in anticipation of being able to texture them later?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:37 am 
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DBB Cadet
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Reading this I can't see why OOF-Editor will not show your custom textures.

If you load your object (orf) then you can see on the right side of OOF-Editor a tab named Textures. If you hit this one, can you see a list of used textures including your custom ones there?

Did you saved your wolf---.tga as 64x64 or 128x128 (or 256x256) 24 bit uncompressed and converted it with D3Image Tool to OGF_1555 then?

While using D3Edit (if you possible tried that), are you able to see your textures there? Procedure known how to use customs there?

To answer your question:
The current public D3EditAV version owns that importer for 3ds- and Blender- files already.
You may find it, including autoupdater, at http://www.dateiliste.com/en/descent-3/ ... 3edit.html
But there is no texture or uv info used if you convert 3ds to orf for now.

The coming D3EditAV version includes that importer features for 3ds files now.
You will not need to texture/ align a lot, later on, at least I hope so ;)
Some test showed that this is working not bad. Sorry, but I'm not able upload an example picture here. If you would have a look, please write a PM.
As I said, there will be a tutorial coming which explain how to use this all. It's not that difficult...

If you want to go ahead with your 3ds modells you should have a look to the rules (max Faces, max verts) first!


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:26 pm 
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DBB Ace
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No, no list of textures. You can see the same thing above I see in the third image posted. It just stares at me with that blank "Sample Texture" like it's stupid, or something else. My tga has been saved as a 128x128 ogf. And while I can use the "find" function in D3Edit's textures dialog, I can't apply it to the scene. FML

I've run every possible permutation I can conceive of with 3ds. I've told it to look for C:\Descent3\WolfGXFuselage.tga, .ogf, I've stripped the directory and told it to just search for the file. Finally in an attempt to reverse engineer Michael's Pyro-GX, I stripped the file extension altogether, and told 3ds the bitmap was just "WolfGXFuselage." Regardless of how I set up the material and its bitmap, the end result is the same. At the very least, 2orf is converting the UVW Map, but I don't think it's pushing the material name through. Also, as I previously mentioned, there is an entry in my extra.gam. Texture: WolfGXFuselage, wolfgxfuselage.ogf.

Let me know if there's a specific test I can run for us.


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:11 am 
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DBB Cadet
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If you can't see the textures inside the OOF-Editor texture tab, then something went wrong.
You said that you pointed, inside preferences, towards the needed gam and towards the ogf location.
That let me think that you made a mistake inside the gam itself.
To second this idea:
You say that you can find the texture in the D3Edit Texture-Palette-Bar using the 'Find'- function. Right?
But you can't see that texture inside the PaletteBar and not inside the orf-'scene' itself. Right?
This means that you choosed your gam file with the Texture(name) entry correct, but you don't own the texture file (ogf)
which you inserted inside the 'File name :' entry.
May be two reasons for this:
You inserted the full path of the ogf file there? That would be wrong, should be no path and only the filename (xxx.ogf)
You didn't place the ogf file inside your xxx.mn3.

You may have a look here: http://www.schplurg.com/gameedit/tutori ... xtures.htm

If nothing will help, feel free to send me your mn3 file containing all needed things like level.d3l, orf's, gam.file together with ogf's.
I will have a look if I can solve your OOF-Editor problem then.
Write a PM to get my e-adress for this.


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:12 pm 
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DBB Ace
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Is it possible the problem could be further upstream, in the details of material assignment and creation in 3ds? I don't want to go dodging EarthShakers if I can just kill the dude lobbing them at me. :) I ask because I'm certain the gamfile entry is correct (Now I know what all the flags are for; they're for D3Edit,) and OOF Editor doesn't require an mn3. Point in case, I've been using Michael's Pyro-GX repainted black as my Wolf-GX for the last several years. All of its files live in my Extra13 hogfile. Only recently have I begun to delve into modelling.

Can you inquire upon one of your 3ds testers how the materials, maps, and bitmaps are supposed to be named? Like I said, I've run through a lot of variations, but obviously I have yet to find the right one!

Thanks for your time, Atan


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:53 am 
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DBB Cadet
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Quote:
All of its files live in my Extra13 hogfile.

Never do that. Don't change any of the stock gams!!
Make your own work.hog (work.mn3)
Never place any changed stock gam-files or custom gams inside the D3 main dir and don't place any oof etc there!
You will run into trouble doing this, earlier or later!
Better build up a structure of folders where you place these files.

Quote:
Is it possible the problem could be further upstream, in the details of material assignment and creation in 3ds?

No. This OOF-Editor problem is not 3dmax related.

FYI:
There is a two-sided way to build with 3ds and orf/oof needed. You must handle both different.

1.
While building, texturing, assigning etc. with 3dmax you need:
no gam!, no mn3 !
what you need is:
All Descent3 textures converted into tga using the -D3 Image Tool-. Once done and place into a folder / usable lib for 3DMax.
Import them/ the needed ones into 3dmax.
You need to change your material names inside 3dmax depending to it's d3 ID into: "0001" up to "2084"
This can be done by left clicking into the Material#xx editing field.
Which number each texture inside d3 has you can see inside the D3TextureBar-Texture->Info.
For example:
the Rainbow Texture (test.ogf) ID is: 1
the Ref (Ref.ogf) ID is: 2084
Material inside 3dmax should be named to "0001" and "2084"

Texture and align your modell now.
Save it. Inside the -3ds file- the material is now prepared. D3Edit can read them. OOF-Editor not!
While converted by D3Edit now you need to import that orf into the OOF-Editor to generate ab oof file.

The converted tga files and the texture ID list will be available.
Remember that you need to wait for the next D3editor build trying this out.

2.
To handle your files inside D3Edit you need a different way:
As far as you use no custom textures you just need to import the 3ds file:
D3Edit looks for the ID's and knows which ogf!! texture it should use.

Quote:
how the materials, maps, and bitmaps are supposed to be named?

I hope I could answer your question above already.
But I will point your question (this thread) towards a tester who knows how to handle this.

Quote:
Thanks for your time, Atan

No problem.


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:45 pm 
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DBB Ace
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I have changed the material names in 3ds to 2524, the designation number given me by D3Edit, and reexported as an ASE. Again, using 2orf, I converted the model into an orf, and yet still the mapping coordinates are in place, but no reference to my material is made. With all the information I've been given, everything has been set up and prepared correctly. The texture in question has been converted to a 128x128 ogf, and resides in Descent 3's root directory. The appropriate Texture entry has been made in the extra gamfile, and both D3Edit and OOF Editor have been instructed to read that gamfile, and they fail to apply the material--but the UVW maps are there, because this "sample texture" is aligned with the mapping. Look, I could understand if either program couldn't find the texture, but at the very least it should still say "WolfGXFuselage" in the texture tab, but it doesn't because the program doesn't know to look for it. It doesn't know to look for it because it's not in the room file (until I apply it in D3Edit, a step that should have never been required until the update.)

Now, here's the kicker. When I instruct D3Edit to read the gamfile, it doesn't apply the material, but it appears in the library--but not exactly. Here's what I see.

Image

I can only presume it's appearing like that because it's unpacked, not included in an archive. Now, in any event, I finally got the texture applied and into the game. I am finding, however, from this experience, that 2orf is converting the maps, but it is not transferring the material information to the new orf file it generates. If it was, I would have never had this problem to begin with.

Now, is D3Edit not displaying my textures because they're not packed? Do I need to finalize them and package them?

As always, thanks for your time. ^_^


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:23 am 
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DBB Cadet
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I have no knowledge about 2orf, I don't know if this tool read in the material names too.
What tells the readme about?

I can see the WolfGX.. texture inside the current texture inside D3Edit TextureBar. (but not inside the big view, which is a different problem, let us forget this for now)
This means that your gam entry is named WolfGX... and D3Edit find the texture to draw it.
If you would use the new D3Edit version and convert your 3ds, you would run into trouble too.
Material inside the 3ds is named "2524" which it will not find inside the gam because you named it WolfGXFuselage. It should be the same "2524" as 3ds material name.
...........
So if your 2orf-tool will read in texturenames I would suggest to name the textures (Material name, not the file name!) same as in your gam file. May be this will help then.
You don't need to pack anything. Create a folder with your textures in and point to them inside OOF-Editor.
Seems all a little complicated with 2orf for me. So if you would like to try out the new D3Edit 3dsImporter for a test.., write a PM.


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:56 am 
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DBB Cadet
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A little update info:
You may name your textures inside 3DMax as they are named inside D3 now.
Use the GAM-name NOT the file-name!

I.E.:
the GAM name is: HangarDeck.TGA1
the ogf filename is: HangarDeck.ogf

Convert the HangarDeck.ogf to HangarDeck.tga.
Place that tga into your 3DMax-Descent3_Textures folder and choose it inside 3dmax for texturing now.
Rename the Material# to HangarDeck.TGA1, leave the filename as it is.(HangarDeck.tga)

Using the texture id's inside that Material# ("0032") will still work.

Texture your 3ds file, save it.
Import it with D3Edit and the texture should be on your modell now.

If D3Edit can't find the names which are saved with 3ds file, it will choose a texture from stock.

While HangarDeck isn't an good example here one more to go:

the GAM name is: P-She Floor Mirror
the ogf filename is: P-She Floor2.ogf

Convert the P-She Floor2.ogf to P-She Floor2.tga
Rename your Material# to P-She Floor Mirror

So while using the D3 stock textures nothing else is needed.
Import your 3ds with D3Edit and you will see your orf textured and aligned..


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 Post subject: Re: 3ds Max to OOF
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:01 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:09 am
Posts: 5
Hello SilverWolf,

I'm the 3DsMax tester that works with Atan. If you need any help, feel free to ask me too.


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