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 Post subject: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Guys, please help! I'm so very confused regarding which sounds from DTX2 correspond to ones in HAXMED32. In the latter, the sounds were named arbitrarily by the maker of the program, which makes things pretty complicated at times. I'm referring specifically to the sound called "fade". It's not used in the game (I checked: Alter-Fox thought it was used for when a player gets hit by a Flash Missile, but I replaced that sound and nothing changed for those instances). I can't seem to get ahold of the file name and I'm just browsing aimlessly in haxmed and losing time. Anyone know which sound that might be?

Also, in HAXMED many sound items are redundant, for example there are two repated items for secret level teleporter activation, called "teleporter" and "secret exit triggered", and they make use of the same file. Same with the generic powerup pickup sound, there are three separate entries for shields, energy and lasers, all of which use the same sound. It doesn't seem to be possible to introduce new sounds to the HAM, though, as the editor doesn't offer such functionality. Which is a shame.

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:48 pm 
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I think DTX2 displays the filename of the sound in the far-right column of the sound editor.
But I just checked the filenames (which is easier to do with a D2X-XL setup) and the filename of "Fade" is... fade.wav. The only explanation I can think of for why it doesn't show up in HAXMEDIT is that it's not actually used in the game (except in D2X-XL which does use it for flash missile HUD clearing).

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
I think DTX2 displays the filename of the sound in the far-right column of the sound editor.
But I just checked the filenames (which is easier to do with a D2X-XL setup) and the filename of "Fade" is... fade.wav. The only explanation I can think of for why it doesn't show up in HAXMEDIT is that it's not actually used in the game (except in D2X-XL which does use it for flash missile HUD clearing).


Nope, Haxmed and RBOTEDIT don't display the file names, they use some made-up names instead. NT helped me out and I found fade.wav, it's actually called "wall disappearing" in haxmed. Too bad the sound doesn't really play in game, instead we get cloaking device wearing off for walls opening.

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Probably because the cloak is an easier sound to notice. I've often noticed in D3 multiplayer that the fade sound doesn't register in my mind unless I actually see the powerup making it.
I do like the way Karx put the fade sound to use in D2X-XL, to make it sound like your ship is actively trying to expel the blinding flash-missile light from your windshield.

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The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:24 am 
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I would play the shit out of D2X-XL if only it had a vanilla mechanics toggle button. A single function that would let you switch between regular and enhanced game mechanics. Such as being able to hoard powerups and activate them at your leisure. I feel I'm cheating when I do this, the powerups activated instantly in the original game for a reason.

I love the remaining robot counter, though. Not only is it convenient but also gives Descent more of that retro arcade feel. Too bad it's so troublesome to include with Rebirth : (

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:52 pm 
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It does have one, sort of. In d2x.ini enter -pured2. Although I think it disables most of the visual effects too...
I think the main idea behind those changes is that D2X-XL was designed mainly for missions to be created for it, and to allow level designers some more versatility with the engine (there's a reason that when I build maps they're usually D2X-XL type :P). The hoarding mechanic gives level designers more options for secrets -- normally cloaks and invluns are not the greatest things to put behind puzzles because by the time you figure them out there are no bots left in the area to use them on, and even when you're replaying the map you have to clear the area before you start to solve it :cough: Turnabout Bore :cough:.

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The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Well right now another problem has sprung up: how to make sdl mixer affect replaced sounds. It turns 11k sounds into 44k for Descent 1, but won't do the same for sound files exported from D1 and integrated into D2. For some reason, those files still stand out in quality, in a bad way.

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:06 pm 
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Of course they do.
You can't bring back the information that an 11khz sound is missing compared to a 22khz sound just by converting it into a 22khz sound, because you can't restore something that isn't there in the first place. It's still going to sound like an 11khz sound. The only difference is that the game can play it along with 22khz sounds.
Just like converting a 92kbps mp3 to 320kbps doesn't make it sound any better, it only makes it take up more space.
That's kind of the main reason I'm still in favour of using the D2 sounds whenever the sound is in D2, even if it's slightly different, (like for the drillers and the secondary lifter).

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
Of course they do.
You can't bring back the information that an 11khz sound is missing compared to a 22khz sound just by converting it into a 22khz sound, because you can't restore something that isn't there in the first place. It's still going to sound like an 11khz sound. The only difference is that the game can play it along with 22khz sounds.
Just like converting a 92kbps mp3 to 320kbps doesn't make it sound any better, it only makes it take up more space.
That's kind of the main reason I'm still in favour of using the D2 sounds whenever the sound is in D2, even if it's slightly different, (like for the drillers and the secondary lifter).


That's true, but when you play D1X-Rebirth you still get awesome sound quality! Arguably equivalent to the 22k of Descent 2. That's thanks to the SDL_Mixer.

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:08 am 
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Gosh dang it, I got really close to implementing the D1 sounds back into the game, with no collision whatsoever with the intrinsic D2 sounds (except of course the multiplayer sounds which got shamelessly sacrificed). All I need is 6 vacant sound files to replace with the door sounds. Too bad I'm already at the limit, this really sux!

Wish someone made a program that would allow the insertion of more sound files into the S.22 archive :<

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:26 am 
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Have to say I'm glad the Descent 2 doors get to keep their sounds at least... :P
Especially because Weasel Industry.

But at the end of the day, apart from Weasel Industry, the door sounds always seemed to me to be a very minor detail. Robot sounds are the important part.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
Have to say I'm glad the Descent 2 doors get to keep their sounds at least... :P
Especially because Weasel Industry.

But at the end of the day, apart from Weasel Industry, the door sounds always seemed to me to be a very minor detail. Robot sounds are the important part.


Agreed, those we've already got covered. However, my opinion is that the D1 door sounds are much more distinct from each other. And I don't think anyone can argue with that. After all that playing D2 I still can't remember which kinds of doors have which sound. Hell, I can't even play the sounds back in my head, they're so indistinct. But sure, there's no reason to mess with them. I only wish I could add more .wav files to the .S22 file. The Descent 2. HAM has around 60 vacant sound flags - I'll see if I can bolster the archive with the D1 content if I can run Game Extractor - so far no luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:15 pm 
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The problem, to me, is that if you replace the door sounds, the smaller D1 portion of the mission (which I know is very important to you :P) will sound almost fine... but the D2 portion, which is larger, will have the door sounds completely screwed up -- and I can't see the D1 sounds fitting with many of the D2 designs very well. If you did find a way to add the sounds without replacing the sounds on the D2 doors, I'd have no problem at all. Also I can't give you Weasel Industry if the sound for Door32 gets replaced, cuz then the joke wouldn't work. And I'd need to save it for a mission when the joke would work.

But... level design is also important because you need doors to have door sounds :lol: . I think it makes sense to worry about this later, not least because if it causes any bugs in the mission itself, it would be good to have a mostly-final version of the mission to iron them out with, instead of a constantly-changing version where you might have to squash the bugs again and again.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:11 am 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
The problem, to me, is that if you replace the door sounds, the smaller D1 portion of the mission (which I know is very important to you :P) will sound almost fine... but the D2 portion, which is larger, will have the door sounds completely screwed up -- and I can't see the D1 sounds fitting with many of the D2 designs very well. If you did find a way to add the sounds without replacing the sounds on the D2 doors, I'd have no problem at all. Also I can't give you Weasel Industry if the sound for Door32 gets replaced, cuz then the joke wouldn't work. And I'd need to save it for a mission when the joke would work.

But... level design is also important because you need doors to have door sounds :lol: . I think it makes sense to worry about this later, not least because if it causes any bugs in the mission itself, it would be good to have a mostly-final version of the mission to iron them out with, instead of a constantly-changing version where you might have to squash the bugs again and again.


No problem with that - everything would be in the game files anyway so the designer wouldn't have to worry about anything when making the level itself. That's why I'm trying to take care of this early on.

Don't worry about D2-introduced doors, the sounds will be untouched. Due to the restrictions in file architecture I was able only to change the sounds of the gray door first introduced in level 12 (this sound also applies to the doors first introduced in level 6, as well as the mine entry doors which never open in Descent 1 anyway) and the sound that was used for all secret doors in D1 - it applies to the secret door designs introduced in D1, which do get used quite a bit throughout D2. If I'm successful, I'll only add D1 sounds to other kinds of D1 doors, such as the 4-part door from level 1, 8 and 21, the hatch from levels 10, 17 etc and the two-part door from levels 2, 4 etc. These doors simply deserve to have their own sounds, duh!

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 Post subject: Re: Sound flags in Haxmed32 vs sound flags in DTX2?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:11 pm 
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I found out an interesting piece of trivia while browsing the DXX-Rebirth forums. ThugsRook suggested it there. In order to fix the files from Descent 2 which get sped up at 22 khz all you need to do is to re-save them as 8 bit mono 22500 hz using soundrec32. Of course it works. Funnily enough, you can do the same with the 11 kHz files extracted from Descent 1 and it works wonders in terms of quality. No muffling, no noise, no nothin'.

The only thing I've noticed when testing sounds prepared like this is that they sound a bit too... how to put it... mono. Other sounds in the game (the original ones) have much more of that "surround" quality to them. Could this be somewhat remedied by saving the files in stereo? Or can't the game read them at all?

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