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 Post subject: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:26 am 
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DBB Ace
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Like I said, you're out voted 25 to 1 by people who have been in the game longer.
What if you're having fun and the level just ends, then no one comes back. I just came from one of your "broken" servers (roadkills) the game had been going on for 7 hours and no time bug at all. Yet you said it happens at the same interval all the time....I've seen it too many times and it happens just like I said. Sometimes within an hour and sometimes not for days. Programmer must have left something in there you don't see or understand :)
You can what if it to death. The majority still rules here. Come up with a majority vote, take the time that you say you don't have to contact the server ops before listing a server as broken. You're a player, but you're not the only player in the game.
And you seem to be alone in your crusade. everyone still plays the servers you list. It would seem your words have little merit among your peers :)
You can't be having any fun at this game, if the time bug bothers you more than a time limit.
Time limits, in my opinion and the majority of the players I know, inhibit play, more so than the bug.
It's your choice to keep whining and not play on any servers, just as it is our option to use the settings we wish and that we know suite the majority of the people that make use of the servers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:39 am 
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Suncho wrote:
You know I don't join games to check time limits. I really don't appreciate you speaking about me like that.

Hmmmm, You don't appreciate being spoken to the way you speak?
So far, all you've proven to me, is that you do join servers to check the time limits and be a self proclaimed "server cop." If the game kept going and going, it was because the people playing were having fun.
The game has so many bugs in it that we've all learned to live with over the years, it's just not perfect. But it is fun. This dialog will be endless and fruitless. I don't appreciate you putting out a list of any kind, when what you should be doing is explaining the time bug to people in the game. The one's you say stay on forever. If there's a game going on for five hours and the people are still enjoying it, big deal, let 'em have fun :)


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 Post subject: Re: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:47 am 
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American Spirit wrote:
Like I said, you're out voted 25 to 1 by people who have been in the game longer.


I assume you mean they have more play time on your server?

American Spirit wrote:
What if you're having fun and the level just ends, then no one comes back.


I'm not having fun if the time limit bug is there.

American Spirit wrote:
I just came from one of your "broken" servers (roadkills) the game had been going on for 7 hours and no time bug at all. Yet you said it happens at the same interval all the time....I've seen it too many times and it happens just like I said.


It affects different players differently. That doesn't mean it doesn't always start happening at the same time.


American Spirit wrote:
Sometimes within an hour and sometimes not for days.


Could these problems you saw "within an hour" possibly be unrelated to the time limit bug?

American Spirit wrote:
Programmer must have left something in there you don't see or understand :)


We found and fixed the bug on our next project.

American Spirit wrote:
You can what if it to death. The majority still rules here. Come up with a majority vote,


http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4156

American Spirit wrote:
take the time that you say you don't have to contact the server ops before listing a server as broken.


So does that mean I'm right but you're just acting as if I'm wrong because the way in which I presented this information offended you?

American Spirit wrote:
You're a player, but you're not the only player in the game.


I'm not the only player in the game, which is why I asked other players what they thought. They agree with me. You keep saying you asked 25 people. Who are these people?

American Spirit wrote:
And you seem to be alone in your crusade. everyone still plays the servers you list.


If by everyone, you mean all the people who don't notice that their game is broken, then yeah.

American Spirit wrote:
It would seem your words have little merit among your peers :)


I have yet to find a single other player who disagrees with me.

American Spirit wrote:
You can't be having any fun at this game, if the time bug bothers you more than a time limit.


Why would a time limit bother me? Time limits are good because:
1. If I'm far behind because I was either losing or because I just joined, I'll have a clean slate after the level cycles.
2. If the server is full, some players will clear out when the level cycles. This opens up space for new players to get into the game.
3. If I'm winning, I have a definite point at which I can finally say "I won" or "I came in second"
4. It gives me a chance to think about whether I want to play another round, switch to another level, or take a break.

Even if the time limit bug didn't exist, it would still be GOOD for servers to have time limits.

American Spirit wrote:
Time limits, in my opinion and the majority of the players I know, inhibit play, more so than the bug.


The only reason I could think of for wanting to eliminate time limits altogether would be if I were a selfish server op who wanted my server to always be full whether the players really wanted to keep playing or not.

Maybe you need to ask yourself this question:

Why do players *CHOOSE* of their own free will to leave the game when the time limit is up? Is it because they're angry that their game got interrupted for 5 seconds? I don't think so.

American Spirit wrote:
It's your choice to keep whining and not play on any servers, just as it is our option to use the settings we wish and that we know suite the majority of the people that make use of the servers.


I play on good servers and I play frequently. I would play on your servers too if they didn't have the problem.

American Spirit wrote:
So far, all you've proven to me, is that you do join servers to check the time limits and be a self proclaimed "server cop." If the game kept going and going, it was because the people playing were having fun.


If that were true, the list would probably be bigger and more up-to-date.


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 Post subject: Re: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:01 am 
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DBB Ace
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Suncho wrote:
I assume you mean they have more play time on your server?


Old saying "Assume make Ass of u and me.
They have been in the game since it was released (the original Descent 1)


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 Post subject: Re: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:43 am 
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Suncho wrote:
I'm not having fun if the time limit bug is there.
Could these problems you saw "within an hour" possibly be unrelated to the time limit bug?


No. Same symptoms.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:45 pm 
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Krom just pm'd me with an idea that should satisfy both ends.

Set Hunter's tool in the auto restart to one hour.

It wouldn't inhibit game play, would satisfy those that don't want the time limits and it would be a very rare occasion, that the servers don't get restarted within at least a four to five hour time limit and most probably would restart within two or three hours on most occasions.

I'll set the servers like that and watch what happens.

Let's set the flaming and bickering aside and see what happens.

I acknowledge your contibutions and dedication to the game.

If it's fixed in 1.5, when it's released, it'll be a none issue anyway.

Check the servers out and see if the one hour global setting makes a difference.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:09 pm 
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DBB Ace
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OK,
Already mentioned Krom's idea about the autorestart.
I repolled and rephrased the question about the time limits, as I thought I may have bias'd the poll the way I asked it.
I emailed the regular users and asked about half of them in a game, instead of "do you want a time limit or not." (to which they all originally said no.), I asked "Would a time limit here bother you?" Once again, they all said no :)
Meaning that it would not bother them. Further discussion brought about that if the game has been running for more than four hours, most humans need to take a break (if only for 20 seconds) to loosen up the hands, relieve the bladder, etc., etc.

So, in trying to accomadate all players (and you do count Suncho :) )
here's the simple solution.

I set the auto restart for 2 hours. This is invisible to the players in the game and will not inhibit play.

I set the time limit in the game for four hours, which will happen even with people in the game, as per the poll of the available players.

With these two options set, the servers should not get "old" and everyone, both the "I hate time limits" group and the "I want time limits" group should have some accomidation by comprimising a bit.

The American way :)

Check them out, see if they are better for you.

All the bullshit aside, the reason for running a server is to promote the game, keep it alive and make it a good experience for everyone, and you are in that group.

Can't please everyone, but this is a shot at it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:05 pm 
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I don't need to check your servers. I trust you. If I run into any problems while playing on any of your servers I'll let you know.


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 Post subject: Re: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:06 pm 
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American Spirit wrote:
Suncho wrote:
I assume you mean they have more play time on your server?


Old saying "Assume make *** of u and me.
They have been in the game since it was released (the original Descent 1)


I have been playing Descent multiplayer since 1995.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:22 pm 
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Got you beat by a year....but then it was released in 94 :)
Different pilots then. We had six fire stations in Roswell. All networked together. Was a good stress reliever after hours.
We played online also, but the LAN games were soooo, much better.
Almost all the players I know are old farts, both in real life and in the game. Hence the name of the server :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:51 pm 
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Descent was released in 95. The demo came out in 94.

I started on LAN also. I played on LAN every day with about 15 people in one room. Then I got Kali in March of 1996.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:53 pm 
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Reset the list to empty. It was getting old. I'll add servers back as I see problems.


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 Post subject: Re: time limits
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:56 pm 
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American Spirit wrote:
And you seem to be alone in your crusade. everyone still plays the servers you list.


Last night there was a CTF game in a broken VV server. Someone popped out to check for other active servers, then popped back in and let us know where another server was. We all left the broken server.

Suncho is definitely not alone in his desire to play non-broken games. He's just the most vocal. We all want to play non-broken games if possible, and I appreciate your making a step to make sure that happens (the 2 hour restart / 4 hour limit thing.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:14 pm 
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Thanks Lothar.
I think the compromise will help all.
It's really my desire as a serverop to provide a good fun game for all, not just the regulars on the server.
Plus, I don't want to accuse someone of being hard headed about something as simple as a time limit, if I'm doing it myself :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:29 pm 
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American Spirit wrote:
Plus, I don't want to accuse someone of being hard headed about something as simple as a time limit, if I'm doing it myself :)


Haha! your words on our all minds! Peace bros! We are all sitting in the same boat "the passion to descent" !

Hope we now came to an end...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:12 pm 
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And on a same thing only different note:
There are still serverops out there who do not care enough about the players or games to come to this forum and even discuss an issue.
They should be encouraged to join, or informed that it even exist.
I came here to support and promote the game.
And of course, 'cause I love everybody in it ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:20 pm 
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Suncho wrote:
Descent was released in 95. The demo came out in 94.


LOL, always the perfectionest.
Started with the Demo.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:48 pm 
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ignore this reply :D


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 Post subject: Re: List of Broken Servers
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 3:00 am 
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Do_Checkor wrote:
@ Krom:

American Spirit wrote:
Time limits inhibit play. It is the servers option to put time limits or not.


I agree A.S. To restart a server 10 times a day is bull**** and no solving of the problem - it just makes other probs (people leave because of those very annoying server restarts)...


People DOn't leave when the Server restats, People leave becuse they Can't hang, they have other things to do, they do actually sleep, or the server just plan sucks to them in one way or another. I will leave if annoied or care about a laggy server....

DF servers well Suncho if your in teh US well they suck to you becuase there in Germany for Christ-sake. DOn't get made because I Directed it to you, but very true Bro


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 Post subject: Re: List of Broken Servers
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:23 am 
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TCO-Ya Stoned wrote:
People DOn't leave when the Server restats,


I really saw the opposite on my servers. See: I am a betatester of DE-Hunter's tool since years and running 3 D3-Servers since more than 2 years now. I have my statistics, believe me. But I want to admit that I changed my mind regarding these limits in the past months... I had several discussions and tests and I am trying this setup since:

Timelimit = 3 hours. Killgoal = 150. If nobody is on the server, the tool will try to completely stop and restart an instance after each 2 hours.

I came to the point that quality is more important than people who leave because of timelimit breaks, as this seems the only solution to get rid of those bugs so far...


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