Anybody still playing D2?

The place to promote and link to Descent levels - both multiplayer and singleplayer - D1, D2 and D3.

Moderators: Xfing, Sniper

User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Anybody still playing D2?

Post by Diedel » Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:23 am

Interested in some single player missions?
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

D2 SP missions

Post by Lothar » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:17 pm

Diedel! Haven't seen you in like... 6 years...

I'm working on getting D2 to run on my system, but once I do, I might hit you up for some single player missions.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:31 am

Hey,

do you still remember me, or did you check my last post date in my profile? :wink:

To get D2 to run, you can try D2X (OpenGL conversion). Here's a working version.

Extract everything in your D2 main folder and edit d2x.ini so that it contains the following:
  • -fullscreen
    -gl_mipmap
    -tmap fp
    -nocdrom
    -nomovies
    -gl_mipmap
    -gl_alttexmerge
    -gl_reticle 2
    -playermessages
    -noredundancy
To make it work properly with a mouse you can limit fps in a special D2X menu found under the options menu (that setting will not be saved and has to be reentered everytime D2X is launched though).

I have revived (and revised) my D2 levels (strong fit of nostalgia 8)). Find everything here.
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

D2...

Post by Lothar » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:34 pm

I remember you -- my first flamewar on this board was with you. :) I also had your webpage bookmarked for a while.

I haven't had any luck with D2x yet, but I'll try it again...
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:49 pm

Yeah, I dimly remembered that our first meeting here was rather a collision ... :D

Had it been you who had "ordered" a tailor-made D2 multiplayer level from me once? I am looking for somebody who still has that level ... it's about the only one missing in my collection.
User avatar
DarkFlameWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Lousiana
Contact:

Post by DarkFlameWolf » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:29 pm

I believe he custom ordered Dead Simple from me as well. And I went on and made a new version of it for every Descent.
User avatar
Santrix
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 2:01 am
Location: OH
Contact:

Post by Santrix » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:39 pm

D2 is my favorite, I havne't even tried putting it on my XP machine yet though, I just made the assumption that it wouldn't work, and the reason I hadn't d/led D2X yet is because I was pretty sure the MVE files won't play in it...
User avatar
Top Gun
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 7196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:01 am

Post by Top Gun » Thu Mar 25, 2004 3:57 pm

Santrix, D2 runs fine for me on XP without D2X. Try it out and see how it works. Just remember to put the game in 800x600 resolution to get around the framerate issue.
User avatar
Santrix
DBB Admiral
DBB Admiral
Posts: 1155
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 2:01 am
Location: OH
Contact:

Post by Santrix » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:21 pm

I didn't realise that D2 had framerate problems like D1 did.
User avatar
DarkFlameWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Lousiana
Contact:

Post by DarkFlameWolf » Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:53 am

yep, set it at the highest resolution to get decent framerates. It runs smooth on my fast computer.
Personally, the framerate cap in D1x is stupid. Why give players a 1076x768 resolution when the framerate is gonna be capped at 80? Makes no sense. O_O
User avatar
Ferno
DBB Stoner
DBB Stoner
Posts: 14342
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:01 am

Post by Ferno » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:01 pm

that was put in because homers are linked to FPS. the higer the FPS, the harder they lock on and the quicker they turn. so at 200fps or more it's like a guided on steroids.
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

Post by Lothar » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:47 pm

... also, because ship movement is tied to FPS once you pass about 120-150. Setting the cap at 80 prevents you from moving like you've got an afterburner in D1.
User avatar
DarkFlameWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Lousiana
Contact:

Post by DarkFlameWolf » Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:13 am

but still, it ruins the resolutions or makes the resolutions higher than 640x480 useless since they run so slow at 80 fps.
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

Post by Lothar » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:23 am

huh? 80 fps is 80 fps is 80 fps, no matter what the resolution. If you're running in 16billion x 12billion at 80 fps, the game should behave just the same as at 320x200 at 80 fps.

What might make the higher resolutions "worthless" is that your system might be running more like 10 fps when you get up that high.
User avatar
DarkFlameWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Lousiana
Contact:

Post by DarkFlameWolf » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:23 am

impossible, I have 1 ghz computer, and yet doing the highest resolution on d1x with 80 fps makes it run incredibly slow. I doubt its the speed of my computer that's effecting this.
User avatar
Lothar
DBB Ghost Admin
DBB Ghost Admin
Posts: 12133
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: I'm so glad to be home
Contact:

Post by Lothar » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:19 pm

My 2.7 GHz Athlon with 512 MB RAM won't hold 80 FPS at the highest resolution. I doubt your 1 GHz box will. Run the frametimer (type frametime just like a cheat code) and see what you get.

It runs fine for me at 800x600.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:49 pm

I am getting 80 fps with D2X on my machine with any resolution (XP 2800+ and Radeon 9800 pro), but I limit fps to 30, as I am a mouser and cannot turn well with higher fps.

Btw, Bryan Aamot was so kind to give me the DMB2 sources and I am currently porting it to MS Visual C++ and MFC. I have gotten pretty far already and fixed quite a few bugs ... :D

Maybe he will allow for the finished executable to be given away for free.

Click on the images for a larger picture:

(1)Image (2)Image
(3)Image (4)Image

(1) Split screen view with texture tool
(2) Full screen view
(3) Split screen view with light tool
(4) Split screen view with object tool
User avatar
Tyranny
DBB Defender
DBB Defender
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post by Tyranny » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:28 pm

Keep in mind that D1 and D2 weren't designed for the high resolutions in the first place.

Lothar is correct, no matter what resolution you put it at, 80fps is 80fps and should behave the same regardless. D1 and D2 shouldn't be run any higher then 800x600 anyways. MAYBE 1024x768 but even that or anything higher then that is overkill.

Top Gun, I'm curious on how you managed to get D2 working in XP without D2x. The only possible way I can think of is that you're using the Windows95 version. Which is pretty much pointless to the hardcore descenter being that it has the most god awful joystick / mouse sensetivity settings known to descent, but yeah, am I correct in assuming that is what you're using?
User avatar
Duper
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 9205
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:01 am
Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA

Post by Duper » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:42 pm

D2 runs fine for me in with Win95 version. The Dx2 version does not however.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu » Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:47 pm

Whoa, now that's the way DMB2 should be. There is so much window clutter in that program that it was just screaming for a tabbed interface of some sort!

On that note - I wonder if you have the rare DMBII 2.7 patch. :)
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:07 am

No I don't - does it exist, or does it belong to the realm of urban legends?
User avatar
Tyranny
DBB Defender
DBB Defender
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post by Tyranny » Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:05 am

Try to get in touch with brainware and see if they would be willing to release your DMB95 for free since there is hardly a profit to be made by it and it should have been open sourced or freeware ages ago (Atleast as soon as the D2 source was available).

They shouldn't have a problem with it :roll:, they made their money, the software is archaic now anyways. I'd like to be able to use a full version of DMB95 just for sh!ts and giggles, being a former level designer. Might even get me interested in building again, who knows. If I can't save my work though a demo isn't worth my time :P
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:43 am

DLE-XP is based on Bryan Aamot's (Brainware owner) DMB2 v2.6 source code, which he has given me for personal use. So basically, it's DMB2 v2.6 with a new GUI and quite some fixes and enhancements. I cannot offer a full version of it w/o permission of Bryan, so who ever is interested can check the Demo just to see what it can do. I hope and expect to be able to offer a full version when it's done - there is hardly any money in it any more anyway. :)

You can ask Bryan yourself for a full version of DLE-XP, and if *he* e-mails me you can have one, you can have one. ;)
Dedman
DBB Material Defender
DBB Material Defender
Posts: 4510
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Atlanta

Post by Dedman » Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:45 am

I tried to run D2 but it seemed extremely sluggish, like I was flying through molassis. Very frustrating so I gave up. Is there something that can be don about it?
User avatar
Top Gun
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 7196
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:01 am

Post by Top Gun » Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:18 am

Tyranny wrote:Top Gun, I'm curious on how you managed to get D2 working in XP without D2x. The only possible way I can think of is that you're using the Windows95 version. Which is pretty much pointless to the hardcore descenter being that it has the most god awful joystick / mouse sensetivity settings known to descent, but yeah, am I correct in assuming that is what you're using?
Yes, I do use the Windows 95 version. I've never even touched the DOS version :P. It runs fine for me; the only joystick problem I have is that my HAT switch sliding is as slow as molasses. However, since I only play D2 for the occasional Revival and for singleplayer, I don't find it to be that much of a problem. I might try getting D2X to work one of these days, just to see how it compares.
User avatar
Tyranny
DBB Defender
DBB Defender
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post by Tyranny » Sat Apr 10, 2004 1:49 pm

D2x is much better then D2win95 by far. Atleast when it comes to joystick sensetivity, once you figure out how to get the joystick to even work properly with it :P

Still though, D2x pales in comparison to good old DOS. I miss being able to calibrate in DOS :(
User avatar
Duper
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 9205
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2001 3:01 am
Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA

Post by Duper » Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:23 pm

Dx2 does odd things with my Siatek. in fact, most of the controllers still don't work. Be nice if it got finished. :\
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu » Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:03 pm

The 2.7 patch did exist. I once had it myself. It had something to do with adding Vertigo support in some way that 2.6 couldn't, but I've forgotten the specifics.

One other bug in DMB2 that really needs to be addressed is the HOG manager's tendency to eat TXB and other non-RL2 files. This is a very obnoxious problem.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:21 pm

kyouryuu,

I will ask Bryan about that patch and what exactly it did address. Maybe it was about hoard goals and the related (green) goal texture? Generally, D2:Vertigo converts flag goals to hoard goals though when chosing hoard mode matches afaik. Well, I'll simply ask.

I know of the HOG manager problems and will take care of them. A very annoying problem I am having with the v2.6 is that it duplicates files on certain occasions.

Btw, I have just added animated blinking light display to DMB-XP. That means that you can check blinking light effects now directly in DMB-XP and do not have to test them in D2. I have to admit that I am quite fond of this feature ... :roll:

Check out the demo for an impression if you like. To enable blinking light animation, load a rl2 file into DMB-XP, click into the render pane (to make it have the focus), and press F6.
User avatar
DarkFlameWolf
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 986
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Lousiana
Contact:

Post by DarkFlameWolf » Sun Apr 11, 2004 3:45 pm

Kyo Kyo, I've gotten around that problem of it eating txb files by adding them in last. ;)
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:12 pm

Can it be that these files got deleted because they had the same name (w/o extension) as some level file in the hog file? E.g. "mymine.rl2", "mymine.pog", "mymine.txb"?

The reason for that bug might have been that when saving a level into a hog file, the first three files with the same "base" name (i.e. name w/o extension) got deleted (probably due to the assumption that these would always be rl2, pog and hxm files).

If so, I have already resolved the problem of such files getting deleted, and putting them at the end of the hog file could have been a work around if and only if there were a rl2, a pog and a hxm file with the same base name in the hog file before the txb file.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu » Sun Apr 11, 2004 9:53 pm

I know that the solution was to add them back in at the end. It is also the case, I believe, that the files that get overwritten or corrupted also share the name of the base rl2 file.
User avatar
Tyranny
DBB Defender
DBB Defender
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post by Tyranny » Sun Apr 11, 2004 10:58 pm

Is this D2 only? or is the Demo just D2 only? Why can't it open hog files so you can look at and edit D1 levels as well as D2 levels like 2.6?
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:59 am

DLE-XP is basically DMB2 v2.6 with a new UI and some bug fixes and enhancements. It is not done yet, hence no hog manager yet (I started integrating it yesterday, but it will take me another 2 - 4 hours to finish and fix it). Currently, you can only load rdl/rl2 files (hxm/pog files with the same base name will automatically be loaded). Export them from a hog file (e.g. with DMB2 v2.6) to watch them in DLE-XP.

Also, since the software still belongs to Bryan Aamot and I may currently only use it for personal purposes, I have to wait for his permission to publish a fully functional exe (i.e. containing save file functionality). I hope very much though that Bryan will at least permit DLE-XP.exe to be published (maybe he will offer it himself as another update) - there is hardly any money in it. I have asked him about it, but have no reply yet (maybe due to easter vacation). As far as I am concerned, everybody who wants it can have a fully functional DLE-XP.exe.

Functions still missing are:
  • hog file manager (50% completed)
  • mission editor
  • reactor data editor
  • advanced robot data editing (object and robot manager are in place)
  • block file functions (very easy to add)
  • error checking
  • level converter
  • auto corridor (spline) function
That's all i can think of that's still missing in DLE-XP (in other words, it's almost complete 8)). I expect to be able to finish it this week.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:36 am

Update: The HOG manager is done now.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:59 am

Update (04/14/04): The block file manager is done now.
Update (04/13/04): The undo manager is done now (up to 100 undos/redos).
Update (04/15/04): The mission manager is done now.
Update (04/15/04): The reactor data tool is done now.
Update (04/15/04): The tunnel generator is done now.
Update (04/15/04): The advanced object data editor is done now.
Update (04/15/04): Diagnostic funcions are done - the way they should be!
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:17 am

Here is a list of all the bug fixes and enhancements I have made so far:
  • Generally, DLE-XP is much, much faster than DMB2 v2.6 due to the port to MS Visual C++ 6
  • Lighting completely fixed
    • static illumination works to specified render depth
    • delta light calculation only computes light deltas for the current source's children (-> overflows much less likely; DMB2: compute for all lights up to the current due to a bug)
    • DLE-XP will automatically reduce light render depth as far as required to take care of overflows in delta light calculation
    • delta light calculation only computes light deltas for blinking lights, blastable lights and lights on walls that are trigger targets (DMB2: all 2ndary light textures)
    • flickering lights can be applied to any light texture (1st or 2nd; DMB2: only to 2nd light texture)
    • all light textures or only lava can be prevented from receiving delta light values
    • adjustable render depth for static and flickering lights (i.e. how many cubes away from the source light does a light still affect brightness)
  • Flickering light settings will not be destroyed by the light tool on certain occasions any more
  • DLE-XP can show animated blinking light effects (only for the light sources to check for proper light sequences, or for all affected cubes to show the global effect)
  • Deleting a cube or wall will now remove the deleted sides from all triggers targetting it (DMB2: would eventually leave triggers with invalid targets)
  • You can now add walls up to the max # of walls w/o workaround (could only add one wall less than max # in DMB2 2.6)
  • You can now join the sides of cube # 900 to other cubes' sides w/o being told there were no more free vertices
  • Giving a door texture to a door wall will automatically assign the corresponding door clip to the wall
  • You can now replace textures (will take proper care of door clips)
  • You can select whether texture operations work on the 1st, the 2nd or both textures
  • You can now paste/replace the 2nd textures
  • When adding a wall or a trigger, the type of the last active wall/trigger will be used for the new one (meaning you will not have to adjust wall/trigger data for every new trigger you add)
  • You can copy a trigger and paste it to a new one, allowing you to quickly add a lot of triggers with the same type and targets
  • When adding a trigger, you can have DLE-XP automatically add a wall of proper type if there is no wall at the current side
  • you can now make a cube a robot maker in the cube tool (why not anyway?)
  • Ofc, there is a quickly toggleable full screen mode
  • "Unknown" textures will not be removed from POG files any more when saving them
  • HOG manager sorts files alpha-numerically and can hide non-level (rdl/rl2/pog/hxm) files for faster access
  • The error checking function will create a bug list you can browse and will only highlight the parts of the mine referred to by the select error message.
  • The error checking function will automatically fix bugs where it is safe and makes sense (i.e. the infamous "unused vertex" problem)
  • New extended block file format (*.blx) allows for saving/reading walls and special cubes (fuel centers, robot makers, reactors) to/from block files
  • Lots of small fixes like
    • If no cubes are marked, certain functions (e.g. illumination) will operate on the whole mine
    • "Switch to other side" key
    • Zooming with Shift+Left Mouse Click+Mouse move
There is no word from Bryan Aamot yet whether and how DLE-XP will be offered (like e.g. as a free update to DMB v2.6) once it is sufficiently tested. For the time being you can check the demo that has the only limitation of not allowing to save files.

Get the demo here.
User avatar
Tyranny
DBB Defender
DBB Defender
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Post by Tyranny » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:18 am

Sweet, keep us posted when he makes it official and hopefully *crosses fingers* you'll be able to offer a full new version of DMB right here! :D

Thanks for the updates :)

hrm...after I input the directories on the "preferences" tab and apply the settings I get a "Can't Open File < >

Has goofy looking characters inbetween the brackets, if I had the character map installed I'd probably be able to tell you what it was, but at the moment it isn't.

Didn't do this on the previous demo version though.
User avatar
Kyouryuu
DBB Alumni
DBB Alumni
Posts: 5775
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 1999 2:01 am
Location: Isla Nublar
Contact:

Post by Kyouryuu » Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:40 am

I will definitely make a new D2 map with it! :D

On a side note, one another thing that might be nice. Do you think you could make it such that if no cubes are selected when the user wants to illuminate the mine that the illumination tool assumes the user wants to illuminate every cube? It's a minor fuss to select the whole mine and then do lighting, then unselect it (or worse, get to the dialog box and enter your settings, only to be told you need to select all of the cubes first).

What might also be cute, though completely unnecessary, would be to integrate Descent Block Builder 2 into DMBXP. I always thought that DMB2's curve generator was weak compared to DEVIL's and unless you are dealing with the simplest of curves, it won't get it right. DBB2 largely circumvents that problem and makes DMB2 an even more powerful tool than DEVIL is in this regard! :D

If not integrating it, maybe bundling it? I know Aamot had a hand in designing it, along with Luke Schneider and Heiko Herrmann.
User avatar
Diedel
D2X Master
D2X Master
Posts: 5278
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Contact:

Post by Diedel » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:16 pm

DLE-XP will illuminate the whole mine if no cubes are marked ... ;) ... the same goes true for paste texture operations. That was something always bugging me too. There is also an expert mode where all that "do you really really want to ...?" dialogs will not show up any more.

I have no access to DBB2, but as you can easily import DBB2 block files into DLE-XP, not having it integrated in DLE-XP imo is bearable. If I should however get access to the DBB2 source code, I might integrate it using DLE-XP's COM interface.
Post Reply