Hardest D1 Level

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Hardest D1 Level

Post by LightWolf » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:22 am

What is the hardest level in D1, and how can I tone it down for Descent: REMASTERED?
Also, when should I introduce Vulcan Drillers?
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Xfing » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:53 pm

Hardest D1 level? From my experience that'd have to be Secret 3. From the normal levels 19 is very tough. 12 was also quite shocking to me. 26 goes without saying, but those Fusion Hulks can actually be outwitted quite easily.

I don't think toning down the difficulty for Descent would be a good thing to do, though. Its difficulty is one of the things fun about playing it. I do think that I would like to see remakes of D1 levels with slightly more advanced architecture and triggers (D2 solutions). Doom's episodes have been remade multiple times, D1 could afford that too.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Pumo » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:22 pm

I think it depends on each player, but for me levels Secret 1, 12 and maybe 22/23 (can't recall exactly) were some of the hardest ones I recall.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by vision » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:25 pm

Hi, I'm a pilot that plays D1 with cold starts on insane difficulty. There are just a handful of levels that cause me problems. They are 6, 9, 11, 19, and Secret 3. Out of those I would say Level 9 and Secret 3 are the hardest. As for what you can do to tame them down? There are a lot of things you can do, but I don't know what your vision is. You can remove just one or two key bots in the level, or change bot to a weaker counterpart (like turning large hulks to medium or arming platform bots with lasers instead of missiles), or simply change the AI mode of some bots. All these things can have a lessening effect. Also, don't worry about the Class 1 Drillers. They are fine where they are.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by LightWolf » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:09 am

Getting lots of input here. All great suggestions. However, I have noticed (around the web) complaining about drillers. That's why I currently have them introduced 2 levels later.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by LightWolf » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:13 am

Xfing wrote: I don't think toning down the difficulty for Descent would be a good thing to do, though. Its difficulty is one of the things fun about playing it. I do think that I would like to see remakes of D1 levels with slightly more advanced architecture and triggers (D2 solutions). Doom's episodes have been remade multiple times, D1 could afford that too.
Just making the diffuculty a little more D2-like. Any suggestions on how to better balance weapons (by introducing them at different times)?
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by ThugsRook » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:46 am

the only hard D1 levels are the few levels where youd run out of energy/weapons before finding/getting to an e-center. beyond that the balance is fine.

just porting D1 into D2 makes it easier, except for the secret levels.

:)
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Avder » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:28 pm

All the levels are pretty much balanced. The only changes I would be very small. Off the top of my head:

-Provide a quad-laser powerup near the yellow key in level 8
-Make one of the cloaked lifters in level 9 guaranteed to drop a cloak by setting it as a static drop instead of leaving it to random chance
-Provide a hidden cache of energy powerups accessible before collecting the blue key in level 19
-Anchor one of the roaming platform missile bots in the second section of level 20 in place
-Re-locate and re-orient the two missile platform bots above and on either side of the catwalk that takes you to the energy center near the start of level 26 so they need to turn to shoot the catwalk and the missiles will take a fraction of a second longer to impact.

And just to be evil, changes I would make to make certain sections MORE challenging:
-Place a class one drone inside the secret compartment underneath the red key in level 6
-Move the drillers guarding the blue key in level 8 to the corners of the room instead of in-line with the doors
-Relocate the Medium Hulk in the tunnel descending away from the energy center near the start such that he guarding it instead of laying in ambush near it
-Start the first red hulk in level 9 immediately between the giant rooms two doors, facing the one the player enters from, rather than guarding the compartment with the cloak
-Change one of the brown hulks guarding the energy center in level 11 to red
-Change any one of the invulnerability powerups in level 12 to a cloak
-Have the red hulk guarding the energy center in level 14 immediately behind the door instead of waiting further back, additionally, have the matcen near the blue door activate by a trigger near the blue key instead of just the doors immediately adjacent
-Spread the brown hulks at the start of level 15 into a firing line instead of one behind the other.
-make the matcens in level 17 activate on triggers more distant than the ones that currently activate them.
-move the spreadfire at the start of level 20 to another location a few cubes away
-Make the matcens near the red key in level 21 activate by using either of the two adjacent door, where as one of them will only activate the matcen that creates rapid-fire bots.
-Place a spiderbot immediately behind the door leading into the reactor room on level 22
-Change the 4 platform laser bots that ambush you when you collect the blue key in level 24 to a single platform missile bot
-Hide the yellow key deeper in level 25
-Add three more fusion-bot matcens in the same room as the existing fusion bot-matcen in level 26 on opposite walls. Change three of the four triggers for the current matcen to point to different matcens, thus when the player gets to a point where he has to face the spawned fusion bots, he is attacked from multiple sides instead of just one massive "please fusion me, HARD" ball of matcen'd fusion bots.
-Change the spreadfire cannon at the start of level 27 to a vulcan cannon, and reduce the number of invulnerabilities hidden in secrets that are accessible once you are in a position to assault the boss.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by vision » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:18 pm

Avder wrote:-Add three more fusion-bot matcens in the same room as the existing fusion bot-matcen in level 26 on opposite walls. Change three of the four triggers for the current matcen to point to different matcens, thus when the player gets to a point where he has to face the spawned fusion bots, he is attacked from multiple sides instead of just one massive "please fusion me, HARD" ball of matcen'd fusion bots.
-Change the spreadfire cannon at the start of level 27 to a vulcan cannon, and reduce the number of invulnerabilities hidden in secrets that are accessible once you are in a position to assault the boss.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Avder » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:18 am

vision wrote:
Avder wrote:-Add three more fusion-bot matcens in the same room as the existing fusion bot-matcen in level 26 on opposite walls. Change three of the four triggers for the current matcen to point to different matcens, thus when the player gets to a point where he has to face the spawned fusion bots, he is attacked from multiple sides instead of just one massive "please fusion me, HARD" ball of matcen'd fusion bots.
-Change the spreadfire cannon at the start of level 27 to a vulcan cannon, and reduce the number of invulnerabilities hidden in secrets that are accessible once you are in a position to assault the boss.
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Actually as long as the player gets the vulcan on the right side of the catwalk right away or not at all, and never backtracks after heading through the blue door, he will have only activated two of the matcens, one time each: the two triggers in-line with the first two doors the player uses once he enters the map. Further, there are a couple invulnerabilities spread throughout the area.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Xfing » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:03 pm

Avder wrote: Actually as long as the player gets the vulcan on the right side of the catwalk right away or not at all, and never backtracks after heading through the blue door, he will have only activated two of the matcens, one time each: the two triggers in-line with the first two doors the player uses once he enters the map. Further, there are a couple invulnerabilities spread throughout the area.
You're a mean-ass mofo. I totally wouldn't want to deathmatch you :lol:
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Avder » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:15 pm

Xfing wrote:
Avder wrote: Actually as long as the player gets the vulcan on the right side of the catwalk right away or not at all, and never backtracks after heading through the blue door, he will have only activated two of the matcens, one time each: the two triggers in-line with the first two doors the player uses once he enters the map. Further, there are a couple invulnerabilities spread throughout the area.
You're a mean-ass mofo. I totally wouldn't want to deathmatch you :lol:
Okay. Got a specific level in mind? Something not made by spaz tho. I think that was his name? The guy who made minerva and athena. Then again nysa aint bad if you play with no homers. Spaz levels tend to have an ass-load of homers in em. Makes it kind of cheesy.
IDL rules? First to 20, win by 2? I dunno, I have not played multiplayer D1 in years.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by vision » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:49 pm

Hey, this is a little off topic, but who did this D1-L3 Remix? It's pretty awesome. I would be totally into playing all the levels remixed or remastered or whatever. I wouldn't even mind a mini-version of D! where several levels were combined into one, like all the best parts of Mars made into one epic level, know what I mean?
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Pumo » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:46 am

That level 3 remix is made by ShadoWhyena or Descent Freak (it's the same person).
He's one of the youngest level designers around here, and does a good job BTW. :)
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Xfing » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:41 am

I have to say that L3 redux was quite adequate.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Ferno » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:23 pm

Avder wrote:-Add three more fusion-bot matcens in the same room as the existing fusion bot-matcen in level 26 on opposite walls. Change three of the four triggers for the current matcen to point to different matcens, thus when the player gets to a point where he has to face the spawned fusion bots, he is attacked from multiple sides instead of just one massive "please fusion me, HARD" ball of matcen'd fusion bots.
-Change the spreadfire cannon at the start of level 27 to a vulcan cannon, and reduce the number of invulnerabilities hidden in secrets that are accessible once you are in a position to assault the boss.
I love this idea. Make it happen.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Xfing » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:29 am

A slightly updated D1 with better architecture would really be something nice to look at and play. D2 solutions could also be incorporated, which could be made easier by the PIG that Pumo is making.

But for the sake of all that is good, Fusion's power cannot be halved. No, no, no.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Alter-Fox » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:25 pm

Sol Contingency is still coming along (professionally in fact :D).
But I get that "modernizing" Descent isn't for everybody here.
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Xfing » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:02 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:Sol Contingency is still coming along (professionally in fact :D).
But I get that "modernizing" Descent isn't for everybody here.
I like Descent the way it is, even more so than I do Descent 2 in fact.

But I also do love when someone uses the resources given to them by both games to their fullest extent, as shown in The Apocalyptic Factor. Now THOSE levels are fokken beautiful. That's why I don't mind taking a look at a modernized First Strike. As long as it keeps the depressing grays and doesn't spam the freaking sand texture from Baloris Prime it should all be fine, now shouldn't it 8)
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Lothar » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:46 pm

LightWolf wrote:What is the hardest level in D1
Cold start? Level 20.
Avder wrote:Got a specific level in mind? Something not made by spaz tho....
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Re: Hardest D1 Level

Post by Alter-Fox » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:05 pm

Xfing wrote:...But I also do love when someone uses the resources given to them by both games to their fullest extent, as shown in The Apocalyptic Factor. Now THOSE levels are fokken beautiful. That's why I don't mind taking a look at a modernized First Strike....
Ok, I can understand that. I would say it's different from "modernizing", but I understand what you're talking about now :wink: .
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