Descent 2 needs TCP/IP now

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Descent 2 needs TCP/IP now

Post by Trackball » Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:16 pm

If we can pull off a utility that can run Descent 2 at 1280x1024, we can add TCP/IP support!

No, I'm not going to use Kali and I'm not going to force my friends to either. Kahn doesn't work on Windows 2000.

A game this good deserves TCP/IP support. Stop complaining about the lack of PXO. At least D3 can be played without the use of an ancient twenty dollar utility.
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Post by Kyouryuu » Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:20 pm

Tis true. I've wanted to play Descent at work with my friends, but I can't convince them to put down $20 for Kali just to play Descent. >_>

Doesn't d1x have TCP/IP support, or was it just placeholder?
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Post by Trackball » Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:26 pm

Kyouryuu wrote:Doesn't d1x have TCP/IP support, or was it just placeholder?
I'm pretty sure D1x doesnt have it. If it does, it must be a different version than mine.
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Post by Top Gun » Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:36 pm

With all due respect, why aren't you yourself willing to use Kali? It's by no means "ancient;" Jay Cotton has been consistent in releasing new updates. He just recently added Doom 3 support, for example. A $20 lifetime fee is a very good bargain in today's world.
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Post by SSX-Thunderbird » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:05 am

D2X does have TCP/IP support (well, technically it's UDP/IP like every other game).

(EDIT)And Kali is only $16 if bought through PayPal.
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Re: Descent 2 needs TCP/IP now

Post by Duper » Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:17 am

Trackball wrote:If we can pull off a utility that can run Descent 2 at 1280x1024, we can add TCP/IP support!

No, I'm not going to use Kali and I'm not going to force my friends to either. Kahn doesn't work on Windows 2000.

A game this good deserves TCP/IP support. Stop complaining about the lack of PXO. At least D3 can be played without the use of an ancient twenty dollar utility.
tsk tsk .. such venom.


really... :roll:
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Post by Sirius » Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:00 am

Which version of D2x? 0.2.5 from June doesn't...
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Post by Trackball » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:11 am

SSC-Thunderbird wrote:D2X does have TCP/IP support (well, technically it's UDP/IP like every other game).
Which version? Because the one I have only has IPX and modem/serial.
Top Gun wrote:With all due respect, why aren't you yourself willing to use Kali? It's by no means "ancient;" Jay Cotton has been consistent in releasing new updates. He just recently added Doom 3 support, for example. A $20 lifetime fee is a very good bargain in today's world.
I'm not going to pay $20 just to be able to play one old skool game. My friends are not either.

Every other game I have uses TCP/IP. What other use does Kali have to me? I would essentially be paying $20 to play one old classic.
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Post by Topher » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:23 am

Trackball wrote:I'm not going to pay $20 just to be able to play one old skool game. My friends are not either.
So you'd rather have someone spend several tens of man hours to program it in for you? For one thing, Kali is cheap, a programmer is not. Yes, if someone donates their time, great. But understand a programmers time normally costs between $10-$40 dollars an hour. So understand what you're asking for.

Second, Kali works and works relatively well. Someone has spent many many many hours on it and thousands of people have tested it out. Go with what works.

Besides, Descent 2 ran at 1280x1024 out of the box and has nothing to do with adding TCP/IP support. And it would be UDP/IP anyway.

Finally, lose the spite. You will never, ever get someone to do something for you by demanding it. You need to ask nicely, with sugar on top, two cookies with teh whip cream and maybe a nice donation to the "Programmers who know UDP/IP appreciation" paypal account.
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Post by SSX-Thunderbird » Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:52 am

This is what I see when starting D2X GL without options and selecting Multiplayer. Note that this is a later version than 0.2.5. Diedel's version probably has this as well.

Image

(EDIT)It should be noted that D2X only looks on your local subnet by default. You have to use command-line parameters to make it look elsewhere.
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Post by Trackball » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:30 am

SSC-Thunderbird wrote:This is what I see when starting D2X GL without options and selecting Multiplayer. Note that this is a later version than 0.2.5. Diedel's version probably has this as well.

(EDIT)It should be noted that D2X only looks on your local subnet by default. You have to use command-line parameters to make it look elsewhere.
0.25 was the latest version I could find. What version do you have?

What command line parameters are required to reach games outside of my subnet?

Have you gotten it to connect with other people over the net?
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Post by Top Gun » Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:22 am

Trackball, Kali has TCP/IP tracking for dozens of games, including the most popular current games. It also supports literally hundreds of games, including D1 and D2, through a lobby-based format that emulates LAN play, allowing you to play many games without TCP support or whose main servers have long since been shut down. Click here for a full list of games; you may find others that you play. Kali also has a ;arge number of chat servers and features Internet buddy tracking. It's been the home of the D1/D2 online community for years. I'm not trying to force Kali on you, but I think all of that is a good deal for just $16-$20. I myself use Kali both to play in the D2 Revivals and to browse D3 servers, and I think my money was well spent on it.
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Post by Trackball » Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:13 pm

I finally found the 0.26 patch! It has the UDP/IP support! Excellent. :D

Anyone up for a match? I'd like to see if it works.
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Post by Duper » Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:08 pm

.26 pooched my stick support. :\ Ditched it a long time ago.
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Post by Trackball » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:26 pm

Alright people, It is time for some Descent 2 Anarchy. I have yet to experience a D2 game with more than one other person. Lets try the UDP/IP support.

Anyone willing to actually play or are good gaming endeavors not worth your time?
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Post by Neo » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:14 am

Trackball wrote:Alright people, It is time for some Descent 2 Anarchy. I have yet to experience a D2 game with more than one other person. Lets try the UDP/IP support.

Anyone willing to actually play or are good gaming endeavors not worth your time?
Send me a copy of D2 and send me a nice keypad that lets me press more than four keys at the same time, and I'll play with you. ^_~
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Post by BUBBALOU » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:36 pm

Neo wrote:Send me a copy of D2 and send me a nice keypad that lets me press more than four keys at the same time, and I'll play with you. ^_~
Buy your own D2 = 2 .99 :idea:

MR I want more than 4 strokes on one jerk?

Go pinch your Mother's purse :P for $30 and go buy a Keytronic LT Classic II :!:
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Post by Sirius » Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:50 am

Ok, I managed to find a CVS version of D2x on the website with that stuff. And it actually works incredibly well on this machine; no screwing around with resolutions to get the video card to work with it, or trying to drop the framerate, or anything. Near-perfect. (The SDL version anyway; the OpenGL one has issues, but this being a Voodoo 3 card I expect it to.)

I am curious, though, as to how the UDP-IP support is supposed to work. Surely you can't operate on a socket basis? I would have thought entering IPs would come into it somewhere...?
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Post by Trackball » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:01 am

Sirius wrote:Ok, I managed to find a CVS version of D2x on the website with that stuff. And it actually works incredibly well on this machine; no screwing around with resolutions to get the video card to work with it, or trying to drop the framerate, or anything. Near-perfect. (The SDL version anyway; the OpenGL one has issues, but this being a Voodoo 3 card I expect it to.)

I am curious, though, as to how the UDP-IP support is supposed to work. Surely you can't operate on a socket basis? I would have thought entering IPs would come into it somewhere...?
Excellent.

Yes, we will have use IP's.

The easiest way to find out what your broadcasted IP adress is just to simply go to www.whatismyip.com .We'll just have to exchange IP's, since there's no browser we can look through.

Btw, do you have the sound delay bug on yours?
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Post by Sirius » Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:49 am

No, not even that. Most other implementations do give me a sound delay though.

How exactly do you use IP addresses with D2x? If I could find somewhere to punch it in it'd be fine, but there's no dialog or anything for it. When I hit 'Join UDP/IP netgame' it just shows me the IPX-style socket listing, obviously with nothing on it.

Edit: Ugh. Read above. Parameters... I just have to figure out what they are.
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Post by Trackball » Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:07 pm

Sirius wrote:No, not even that. Most other implementations do give me a sound delay though.

How exactly do you use IP addresses with D2x? If I could find somewhere to punch it in it'd be fine, but there's no dialog or anything for it. When I hit 'Join UDP/IP netgame' it just shows me the IPX-style socket listing, obviously with nothing on it.

Edit: Ugh. Read above. Parameters... I just have to figure out what they are.
Which version do you use?

Could someone please explain how to set these parameters?
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Post by Sirius » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:05 am

Not sure about the version number but it's the 7 Nov 03 snapshot.

As far as I can tell - from descriptions of use to use its D1x equivalent - the syntax is -udp =<host list>, where <host list> is a list of addresses to use separated by commas. I'm not sure which port it uses by default.
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Post by Neo » Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:32 am

BUBBALOU wrote:Buy your own D2 = 2 .99 :idea:

MR I want more than 4 strokes on one jerk?

Go pinch your Mother's purse :P for $30 and go buy a Keytronic LT Classic II :!:
You're cold as ice. :P

I don't know if I want to spend any more money on Descent. =P
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Post by Trackball » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:37 pm

Sirius wrote:Not sure about the version number but it's the 7 Nov 03 snapshot.

As far as I can tell - from descriptions of use to use its D1x equivalent - the syntax is -udp =<host list>, where <host list> is a list of addresses to use separated by commas. I'm not sure which port it uses by default.
How exactly do I set these parameters?
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Post by Sirius » Fri Aug 13, 2004 4:45 am

Ah... there's a file called 'd2x.ini' in the main Descent 2 directory... just put it on a new line.
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Post by Trackball » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:18 am

I tried it in D1x and D2x. Neither worked.

-udp=<ip adress> right?
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WHINERS! STUPID WHINERS!

Post by Gregster2k » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:36 pm

Re-a. Treckbell und zee oozeer untee-Kelee types. Um gesh dee bork, right, bork!.. Soe-a ooff yuoo oooot zeere-a vhu dun't vunna booy Kelee, OoH MY GOD, right, GOoESS VHET, isit?I coorrently em steell leefin' et 'ume-a es I em 17, boot I vurk et VENDY'S und cop $6.75 un 'uoor -- meenimoom freekeeng vege-a -- fur 8 'uoors a veek reeght noo, und I meke-a et leest tveece-a es mooch iech veek es necessery tu booy kelee eccuoonts. Um gesh dee bork, right, bork! Right! Und noo i cume-a oon zee DBB, und I see-a peuple-a VHINING becoose-a zeey cunt furk oofer SIXTEEN OoR TVENTY BOoCKS, isit?DON'T YOOo IDIOTS 'EFE BETTER JOBS THEN *ME*?! Blimey! Iff yuoo pey fur zee 'uooseeng yuoo leefe-a in, right, veet a jub vell oofer meenimoom vege-a, yuoo 'efe-a NO RIGHT tu cumpleeen, becoose-a I cun berely pey inuoogh fur Kelee eccuoonts veet me oovn peychecks boot I CEN, und thet's me pueent. Um de 'ur de 'ur de 'ur. Right. Hoo mooch ooff yuoor peychecks ere-a yuoo Vheeners-Egeeenst-Kelee blooeeng oon yuoor joonk fuud unyvey, then, eh, mate? Zeere's nu vey sumeune-a leeke-a yuoo vheeners vuoold NOT 'efe-a inuoogh ixcess cesh tu booy Kelee eccuoonts, yuoo're-a joost tuu lezy und reseestunt tu chunge-a. Vheenin' ebuoot zee preece-a ooff Veendoos XP Pruffesseeunel is oone-a theeng, right, boot KELI?! Struth! Iff yuoo cun't pey $20 fur a Kelee regeestreshun, right, hoo ere-a yuoo eble-a tu effffurd fuud, right, cluffeeng, right, huooseeng, right, und yuoor internet cunnecshun, hooh, then, eh, squire? HOoH? HOV CEN YOOo PEY FOR YOOoR LIFE, BOoT NOT BE EBLE TO SECRIFICE A TINY PERCENT OoF IT FOR KELI, isit?Zee unsver: yuoo vheeners CEN pey $20 fur a Kelee regeestreshun, right, yuoo're-a joost beeeng stoopeed, muruneec, sooper-cheepsketes. Um gesh dee bork, right, bork! Ooh deer, it's joost OoNE ooldschuul geme-a. GOoESS VHET...Thet OoNE ooldschuul geme-a vhee it ves oooot COST EROOoND $20 ENYVEY! Blimey! Yuoo're-a loocky tudey ain't muny yeers egu, oor yuoo'd REELLY be-a vheenin'...(\"I cun't booy Descent2, its TVENTY DOLLERS...uggggghhhhh....\") ROFLMEO. Cop ooffff yuoor bootts, FORK oofer zee muney und SHOoT UP. Iff yuoo cun't furk oofer $20 tu pley Descent 1 und 2 oonleene-a, zeen yuoo eren't sereeuoos ebuoot pleyeeng it, right, und iff yuoo're-a nut sereeuoos ebuoot pleyeeng it, right, zeen thet moost meun yuoo theenk yuoor flyeeng skeells reelly soock. Iff yuoo need me-a, right, I veell be-a oofer oon Kelee's Descent serfer LEOoGHING et zeese-a muruns vhu cun't furk oofer $20 dullers tu pley a geme-a thet ves vurt seegnifficuntly mure-a fun thet mooch vhee it ceme-a oooot. Um de 'ur de 'ur de 'ur.

EDIT @ 2008: I decided to Dialectize my old 2004 troll post...*sigh* I sincerely apologize for my past behavior.
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Post by kurupt » Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:58 pm

i have extra kali accounts for you if you please shut the ★■◆● up and leave the dbb.
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Post by Sirius » Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:15 pm

Kyouryuu wrote:Tis true. I've wanted to play Descent at work with my friends, but I can't convince them to put down $20 for Kali just to play Descent. >_>
I wonder if the same "cough up and quit whining" approach will work on the guys of which he speaks? They'll probably tell you to go screw yourself.

Personally, I have no problem with Kali but others might, for various reasons. I'd also like to see Descent 2 liberated from third-party add-ons to work online, but that's a different story.

That said, I can't use Kali anyway because my router doesn't like it, plus I'm not sure whether I can find any that would around here and I'm not willing to pay a couple hundred dollars to buy a new router for a game I'd be lucky to play every other month anyway.

Kali's a good piece of software, but it may not be as feasible as you think to get it working...

There should be a space in that setting: -udp =<ip>. If it still doesn't work I wouldn't be too surprised... it still sounds too good to be true really. I've got no idea whether I would have to forward ports to get it to work or what they'd be, either...
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Post by Trackball » Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:56 pm

kurupt wrote:i have extra kali accounts for you if you please shut the **** up and leave the dbb.
That will not be necessary. The trial version is more than sufficient. My friend and I just had a pretty fun co-op session.

I think I'll stay actually. At least untill my tolerance for failure runs out.

Didn't you hear? Cussing is silly and idiotic. A poor expression of agression. Better luck next time.
Gregster2k wrote:Get off your butts, FORK over the money and SHUT UP. If you can't fork over $20 to play Descent 1 and 2 online, then you aren't serious about playing it, and if you're not serious about playing it, then that must mean you think your flying skills really suck.

If you need me, I will be over on Kali's Descent server LAUGHING at these morons who can't fork over $20 dollars to play a game that was worth significantly more than that much when it came out.
Oh I'm quite serious of playing D1/D2 online. Or I wouldn't even have made this thread would I? My skill at a game I have never played online has little to do with willingness to play and be a good sport.

I have little use for you. You can laugh all you want. I didnt buy the game when it came out. It came free with my Descent 3.

No argument found. Abort, Retry, or Fail? I feel sorry for you. You spent all that time writing a worthless post. Don't even bother making a "comeback".

I think we all know this topic is over. Thanks to the people who tried to help me. You others proved...useless.
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Post by Ferno » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:35 am

So you don't wanna pay twenty bucks for Kali? ok that's fine. means we have to deal with one less songoku.
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Post by Sirius » Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:16 am

Sour grapes? :roll: Not that big a deal guys...

If I can find someone to test it with, it'd be pretty neat to get this thing working... it would be nice if the D2 Revivals could work by that principle - unfortunately I'm not sure all the people involved have the technical knowledge to make it work.
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Post by DCrazy » Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:07 am

Personally, I'm not gonna pay $20 to play a game I'm pretty bad at. In order to make the reg. fee worthwile nowadays, you'll have had to have been playing for a long time.
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Post by Duper » Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:37 pm

Ferno wrote:So you don't wanna pay twenty bucks for Kali? ok that's fine. means we have to deal with one less songoku.
Doh! he said the "S" word. :o
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Post by BUBBALOU » Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:01 am

The Real SONGOKU!!!!! has not been around in years
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Post by Sirius » Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:12 am

When the first half of this semester ends the weekend after next, I am going to try to get this thing working... I just need to find someone to test it with me. But I think I know a few people.

It will be cool to have Descent 2 back in its former glory again.
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Post by Neo » Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:25 am

Hey, Trackball, it's not safe to let some HaX log your IP address. :)

It's safer to go to the MS-DOS prompt or the NT Virtual DOS Machine (NTVDM) a.k.a. the "command prompt" and type ipconfig. ^_^
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Post by Top Wop » Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:47 am

Im having a hard time finding a later version of D2X than .25, can anyone help a brother out?
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Post by Sirius » Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:42 am

Understandably - it's not too easy to figure out where to look unless you have a Mac running OS X (which is truly bizarre).

Check here: http://icculus.org/d2x/ and scroll down to 'binaries', click on the link to the "older" binaries for Windows... weirdly enough that's the only link to Windows binaries listed on the page, and they aren't all old anyway - um... and then grab the CVS version right down the bottom. It's hard to tell, but that actually is 0.2.6.
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Post by Tricord » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:58 am

Sirius, I've been through some of the netcode of D2x.

The IP/UDP code works as follows:

D2 has a peer-to-peer network structure, which means that every client sends it's packets to every other client. Nobody is master, and to find a list of active games a client just has to eavesdrop on the sockets and pick up activity. That is the reason the game initiator could drop out without killing the session.

This netcode was originally wrapped in the IPX transport protocol, which offered basically a way to get a packet from one computer to another over a network.

What has been added with D2x is an UDP wrapper. However, due to the nature of the network structure (and the fact that an outgoing packet has to be sent to all clients on the network), this is done with multicast IP addresses. There are certain reserved IP addresses that indicate the packet has to be delivered to every host on the subnet if it appears as packet destination. A host that is not running D2x will simply drop this packet, while the active players get their packets delivered.

A particularity of those multicast addresses is that they're non-routable. Which means that all clients must be on the same subnet in order to see each other. While this is fine on a LAN, it cannot work over the internet due to the many routers between players.

I have thought about extending the netcode with a client/server system and an internet tracker, but I don't really have the time required to pull this off.
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