New 3D Weapon-Models for D2X-XL

D2X-XL - Descent II update for modern systems with many new features and enhanced graphics. Home Page

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MetalBeast
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New 3D Weapon-Models for D2X-XL

Post by MetalBeast » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:31 pm

Hi!,

like just said in the other Thread, I'm now helping Diedl to finish the high-res version of the game.

Just started making of missing 3D-Models.
Here WIP-Screen of untextured Models:

Image

cu, Zombie
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Post by MetalBeast » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:29 am

Update: Spread-Cannon;

Image

Helix-Cannon:
Image
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Post by MetalBeast » Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:38 am

Ok, Guys,

all missed weapon 3D-models are finished, textured and tested ingame.

Now, they will be tested by Diedel, if he let them free for download, download-links will be posted.

Image

Cu, Zombie

P.S. Now I'm working on Powerup-Models
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Post by MetalBeast » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:07 am

OK, guys.

All missing Models are done.
You can see them at Diedel's page in the worklog \"Hires Models and Textures\".

Btw. thx to Diedel for this nice worklog-entry. ;)

And dont't worry, I'm still working on improving all models and textures ;)
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Post by Sirius » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:15 pm

Hate to say it, but I think the original 2D sprites had more detail.
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Re:

Post by Aus-RED-5 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:28 pm

Sirius wrote:Hate to say it, but I think the original 2D sprites had more detail.
No.. Dizzy's TGA strites are far better in detail. ;)

But for what Zombie is doing. It's not so bad. :)
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Post by Diedel » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:10 am

All D2X-XL hires sprites look better than the hires models in terms of shininess and details. But overall I still prefer the models far and wide. They look more authentic. The sprites are just *too* polished. They look unreal, they somehow don't fit in with the rest. And then they still give the impression of a fake. You somehow sense they're not true 3D. I *love* the weapon models, and once Zombie has done some texturing on the untextured parts of his models (I had an idea for this), they will be unbeatable. :)
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Re:

Post by MetalBeast » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:09 am

Sirius wrote:Hate to say it, but I think the
original 2D sprites had more detail.
Ohh , Yeahh, you are so right, you can see this on this screen. The old Sprite look mucho bettero ;)

Image
Aus-RED-5 wrote: No.. Dizzy's TGA strites are far better in detail. ;)

But for what Zombie is doing. It's not so bad. :)
Thx Aus-RED :D
The High-Rest Sprites will always looks better, than models, cause they are made with very highpoly models and rendering software.
You can not use such effects in this game-engine.
We have to use Source-Engine ;)
Anyway, there are still missing Highres Sprites for weapons.

The problem in the current version of D2X-XL is,that the models are unlighted and without any shaders.
Wait, until Diedel make them shinig, full lighted, and glowing in one of the future-versions ;)

Like I wrote,als the Skins for my models are still beta-versions, feel free to make them better ;)
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Post by Diedel » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:07 am

Oh yeah ... per pixel lighting ... bump maps ... keep dreamin' ... :roll:

Well, Intel has shown a raytracing demo using newly developed code from a German egghead whom they took under contract right from Uni. It was running on a single CPU (multi-core of course, Penryn prototype me thinks) and they had DOOM3 running fully ray traced in real time with 80 fps at 800x600 ... :oops:

There's great things right at the horizon. ;)
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Post by Sirius » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:12 am

The helix one is about the same between renditions. There's a difference between detail and resolution; resolution limits detail, but while increasing the resolution makes things look clearer, it doesn't always look nicer; the features in the Helix model are all visible in the sprite, albeit not very clearly. However, for the abysmally low resolution the Helix sprite has, it uses pretty much *all* of it; the model doesn't.

I mean, we can't expect too much, because you need to worry about framerate as well. But texturing etc would probably help a lot to make them look more real. I don't think flat-shading is enough.
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Post by Diedel » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:19 am

The model looks already better than the low-res sprite.
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Post by heftig » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:52 pm

Diedel wrote:Oh yeah ... per pixel lighting ... bump maps ... keep dreamin' ... :roll:

Well, Intel has shown a raytracing demo using newly developed code from a German egghead whom they took under contract right from Uni. It was running on a single CPU (multi-core of course, Penryn prototype me thinks) and they had DOOM3 running fully ray traced in real time with 80 fps at 800x600 ... :oops:

There's great things right at the horizon. ;)
Couldn't find anything about this.

However, I found a "Quake 4: Raytraced" project originating from Germany, sponsored by Intel.

They ran it on a Core 2 Extreme QX6700 with 17 fps at 256x256.
Diedel wrote:The model looks already better than the low-res sprite.
IMO the models just look bland. The sprites (even the low res ones) are a lot richer.
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Post by MetalBeast » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:47 am

Here is a new version of Helix-Cannon:

Image

improvements:

- fixed modelmesh (deleted invisible faces)
- reduced polycount
- optimized texture-mapping
- enhanced skin-texture
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Post by Diedel » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:16 am

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41858

I was wrong on the game though, just remembered it was an id title.

The sprites do not look any richer than the models. They do not have a single extra detail the models don't. But it doesn't matter anyway - when Zombie is done with the weapon models, they will look gorgeous. Just look at the helix gun he worked over.
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Post by Theftbot » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:32 pm

Tone down the \"white\" parts or make them look metallic, and add subtle scratches to give it a used feel.
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Post by MetalBeast » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:34 pm

Upgraded Phoenix-Gun:

Image

- optimised polycount
- upgraded skin
- fixed mesh bugs
- better UVW-Mapps
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Post by Diedel » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:36 am

Zombie has used a brushed metal-effect texture with some blurred reflection over it for the barrels.

Don't judge the models from the small images here - grab D2X-XL, load a level, type 'honestbob', select the weapon you want to view and press Shift+F5 to drop it. Switch to the gauss cannon and zoom in on the model for a close up view (may need to bind a key to the zoom function and enable the function in the gameplay options menu).

If you have had the previous model version and have texture compression and caching enabled, make sure to remove the helix and phoenix *-256.tga files from the models folder, or D2X-XL will use the older compressed texture images and you won't see the models properly textured.
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Post by Sirius » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:57 am

That Phoenix cannon is going down the right track. I think the gun barrels could be made to look more metallic, but the rest should be OK, and it's the sort of thing I'd expect from 3D models for powerups.
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Post by Diedel » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:14 am

Go finish your level. I want to play it. :P
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Post by Kyouryuu » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:39 am

Models are starting to look nice.

For those of you who are saying they aren't \"metallic,\" \"shiny,\" or \"bumpy\" enough ( :P ), keep in mind how we did things before fancy shader tech. Bake that detail into the model's texture.
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Post by Sirius » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:30 pm

Yeah, but I think you at least *can* bake that kind of detail into these. With a little work. From memory XL doesn't have many shaders yet...
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Post by Diedel » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:22 pm

D2X-XL needs a new engine. :/
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Post by Duper » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:33 pm

would it still be D2 then? In a technical sense I mean.
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Post by Diedel » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:40 pm

Some people think that a game is in its exterior appearance, the graphics, but I don't. I think that what makes D2 D2 is its gameplay, and that is mainly made up of ship and weapon properties (physics): How fast is the ship, how does it accelerate, how is its handling (turn speeds), what are the effects of the weapons ... so you could build a D2 clone with the latest and greatest gfx tech (id's tech5 engine ... drool) and it would still be 100% true to D2. Imho.

I think that D2X-XL is still D2, even with all the changes I have made to it. Gameplay is still 100% the same. Additions, like bullet time (only singleplayer anyway) don't count, because they are still minor compared to the entire game.

Apart from that do I think that D2X-XL never looked as good as it does now, after I have been improving on many of its visual enhancements for over a year.

I'd just so much love to see what I have done with it perfected with modern gfx programming. I could probably do a lot more if I understood more about shader programming than I do, but I find this a tough subject to dig into.
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Post by novacron » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:40 pm

In my honest opinion, any more heavy improvements to the graphics engine is just too much for me. It wouldn't be Descent 2 anymore and it wouldn't have the classic feel it did back when it was still around. That's one of the promises I have for myself with my project... making the textures with more clarity and detail, but at the same time having that original feel we are all used to.

Great models zombie ;)
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Post by Pumo » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:35 am

Diedel:
I'm with Nova. IMHO opinon D2X-XL doesn't needs a new engine. Keep the things as they are going right now: the same Descent 2 engine but super-ultra-duper-mega-enhanced with all the great stuff you've added and that you may add in the future, but nothing exteremly substantial.
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Post by Diedel » Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:37 am

It would still be the same game. Look at what has been done already: New fx, new gfx, new models ... but still true to the original.

A new engine would mainly mean perfect execution of these changes instead of some of my kludges, things like proper shadowing, nicer coronas, shader fx for water, and more possibilities level-building wise. The greatest benefit would be better frame rates. Some fx currently slow D2X-XL extremely down (explosion shrapnel e.g.).

I would still want to have the D2 textures (hires versions), the models and the exact gameplay. Think of the same exterior, just 500 hp under the hood instead of 75. Maybe leather seats and air condition, but that's it. ;)
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Post by Sirius » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:44 am

What it looks like doesn't affect what it feels like... basically, if the engine were up to more recent standards, it would do what D3 was trying to do properly.
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Post by Aus-RED-5 » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:11 am

Sirius wrote:What it looks like doesn't affect what it feels like... basically, if the engine were up to more recent standards, it would do what D3 was trying to do properly.
x2! So true. ;)
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Post by []V[]essenjah » Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:35 pm

X3.

I agree, you need to keep the gray toned down. Be VERY careful with this. With older games, use ambient occlusion a LOT and make the metal dark with some fairly strong highlights. But the highlights look best when they are in smaller amounts.
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Post by novacron » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:06 pm

Diedel wrote:It would still be the same game. Look at what has been done already: New fx, new gfx, new models ... but still true to the original.

A new engine would mainly mean perfect execution of these changes instead of some of my kludges, things like proper shadowing, nicer coronas, shader fx for water, and more possibilities level-building wise. The greatest benefit would be better frame rates. Some fx currently slow D2X-XL extremely down (explosion shrapnel e.g.).

I would still want to have the D2 textures (hires versions), the models and the exact gameplay. Think of the same exterior, just 500 hp under the hood instead of 75. Maybe leather seats and air condition, but that's it. ;)
Don't make me do bumpmapping. :( *shivers*
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Post by Diedel » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:21 pm

It looks like it will inevitably come to that. :roll:
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