If you bitch about "millennials"...

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If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:05 pm

...you are a goddamn ★■◆● asshole.

Millennials are Screwed

Seriously, at what point does armed revolt become our best option? Maybe when scumbag CEOs and poverty-★■◆● politicians start getting dragged into the streets and strung up, the rest of them will get the ★■◆● message.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Krom » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:09 am

It isn't just the Millennials that are screwed, in a couple decades the overwhelming majority of people left at working age will be Millennials or people in a similar situation. The whole economy is leaning on an constantly shrinking base of boomers who aren't going to be around to prop the whole thing up forever, and at some point the foundation will collapse taking more than just the Millennials with it.

The priority on short term returns and protecting existing wealth that has been going on for so long will end up isolating the wealth in the economy so well that it actually devalues it. The more money pools up, the less useful and thus valuable it is. It might even be happening already with the way the stock market is rising constantly because of the currency devaluing at an even greater pace. And the only reason they aren't calling this inflation is because wages aren't rising with it, but otherwise its totally a 10% year over year inflation rate and anyone who says otherwise is deliberately delusional.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by callmeslick » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:17 am

the short term return ideal of business management came out of MBA programs in the late 60s, early 70s. I can remember how appalled he was when it started to get applied to DuPont management which had ALWAYS made a huge profit off long-term planning and patience in investment. That said, returning to 'millennials', I get annoyed sometimes with the mindset and depth of thinking but suspect my beefs are standard 'old guy observing young people' stuff. Bottom line is that they are being complained about, too often, by people who could get a job out of high school that supported adults and even whole families. Housing could be practically saved for, student debt was a foreign concept(at least at the current scale). On and on they face a bleak reality, and toss in automation based layoff cascades coming and a political determination to screw poor people, I don't envy them.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:48 pm

I'm a Boomer and yes, my generation was partly responsible for creating an unattainable and unsustainable growth economy, one that can no longer make a middle class possible anywhere. But there is one detail that Millennials need to realize, that the Boomers are the product of the previous Greatest Generation. That generation was thrust into a war after living through the Depression and a very hard life. They came back from winning that world war all drunk and high on testosterone, optimistic for a new and better life and growth for growth's sake. They were like a bunch of drunken frat boys after a winning the championship football game. They couldn't be put down and everything was up and to the right. Grow baby grow! That generation came home horny as hell and screwed and screwed like there was no tomorrow, putting out more babies than any other generation, us Boomers. That unbridled optimism drove the expectation to create a more prosperous life, to have at least 2 or more kids, a nice house in the suburbs, a couple of cars, lots of things and a good paying job. They also wanted and expected all of that for their kids. It multiplied a thousandfold.

Those of the Greatest Generation were our parents as well as our guides in a life. We were expected to follow in their footsteps like good little foot soldiers and fit into the booming but still rigid society of their creation. It was expected of us. It was a requirement to DO everything just like our parents did. Daughters were expected to marry, have kids and be subservient to their husbands. Sons were expected get an education and obtain good paying job, then support a family. They were even expected to go to war and WIN, just like the previous generation had done during WWII. Anyone that didn't follow those societal norms were shunned. If they lost, they weren't trying hard enough. When a lot of us Boomers firmly rebelled against those expectations, we created our own social structure and norms, ones that WE preferred. I for one am very glad of the feminist revolution of the 1960's. The female societal expectations of the 1950's absolutely revolted me. I wanted the freedom to make my own choices and to not have to fit into some ideal feminine mold. I strove for an education and a career, not a family. For my husband, the expectation to stand up and go to war without question and perhaps die in some unjust war revolted him. He was grateful that his generation had the guts to stand up and fight back, to say: "Hell no, we won't go!" during the Vietnam war protests.

Could we as a generation have done things any better? Probably not. Rebellions are messy and unpredictable affairs, for better or worse. We're living in a society that resulted from the decisions of our forebears. It's up to the next generation to make decisions for their benefit. Millennials need to stand up, get out there and start a revolution, just like we did. Millennials may not have our numbers, but they DO have the technology. :wink:
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:53 pm

I fail to see how any of that is relevant to the current conversation. Yes, the Boomers rebelled against social inequality, but they simultaneously managed to create an utterly odious system of economic stratification. They're also still by far the most influential force in both the political and corporate worlds. Millennials desperately want change, but right now the majority of them aren't nearly on firm enough economic footing to have any legitimate pull in our system.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by vision » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:48 pm

A few months ago I railed on one of my co-workers because we have an young research tech who is a Millennial and this co-worker made some shitty comment about her work ethic. I was like "did you know this is her second full time job? That's why she seems tired. She goes home, sleeps for a few hours, works a shift from 10pm to 5am, sleeps a couple more hours, then comes here to work." I'm real ★■◆● tired of people talking about Millennials.

It's not just America. A friend of mine has a young cousin and complains that he "doesn't seem very motivated". I explained that the way his cousin acts is how people his age act around the world. It's especially a problem in East Asia and South Asia. A lot of young people don't see the point of working hard. For what? You can work your ass off and have just barely more security than someone who doesn't try at all. Shit's ★■◆● up. There's no social mobility.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Spidey » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:19 pm

Boomers didn’t create “economic stratification” I’m pretty sure that pre-existed that generation, and many before them.

Look, old people like to rag on the younger generation, and young people like to blame old people for everything that goes wrong, that’s just life.

There is some truth to both arguments, but the bottom line is...it's the responsibility of each generation to try to make things better, so stop whining and get on with it.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:18 pm

Spidey wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:19 pm
Boomers didn’t create “economic stratification” I’m pretty sure that pre-existed that generation, and many before them.

Look, old people like to rag on the younger generation, and young people like to blame old people for everything that goes wrong, that’s just life.

There is some truth to both arguments, but the bottom line is...it's the responsibility of each generation to try to make things better, so stop whining and get on with it.
This nation's middle class was at its strongest point in history in the decade or two after World War II, with the Greatest Generation at the helm. Since then it's undergone one massive assault after another, with the Boomers giving us such heinous pieces of shit as Reaganomics. There is a very clear-cut delineation here.

And sure, we'll get right on fixing things just as soon as the majority of Boomers drop dead and stop ★■◆● us over.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Spidey » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:42 pm

I’ve had many a discussion with people over the years, in fact I do believe you were one of them, where every excuse under the sun was given not to buy American cars and stuff, so now we hear from young people how hard it is to get good wages…well where were you when others needed the same…What goes around comes around.

I know most people won’t believe it or refuse to believe it, but consumer habits were the main driver of the loss of the artificial middle class.

By artificial I mean the class that was created by unions where anybody with no real skills or education could live in the middle class, those days are over, because we never properly learned how to keep it in the family, so to speak.

But we as Americans are pretty well trained to blame everyone except ourselves for problems…must be those evil corporations…and shit.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:33 pm

Top Gun wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:53 pm
I fail to see how any of that is relevant to the current conversation. Yes, the Boomers rebelled against social inequality, but they simultaneously managed to create an utterly odious system of economic stratification. They're also still by far the most influential force in both the political and corporate worlds. Millennials desperately want change, but right now the majority of them aren't nearly on firm enough economic footing to have any legitimate pull in our system.
It's relevant because ALL of this started with OUR parents. We Boomers were expected to BE just like our parents. THEY were the ones who begat the whole middle class ideal after the war. THEY created rampant consumerism. THEY created the ideal of unfettered growth. THEY created the ideal of a large family. THEY created the ideal of suburbia and cars. The corporations and markets LOVED it and ENCOURAGED it because profits went through the roof. WE were driven to follow in their footsteps because the societal and parental forces to conform back then were so incredibly strong. Consumerism drove everything. It's what we thought was normal, because it was normal to our parents. Sure, a few of us thought that all this consumerism was poisonous, self-serving and stupid. I personally did and still do. But there just wasn't enough of us weirdos to change the status quo. The system had too much inertia. This unfettered desire for excess drove the demand for cheaper prices and more and more products, which then drove the corporations to find cheaper ways to build all that STUFF by outsourcing and offshoring. It's become a vicious cycle. As a Boomer, I'm saddened at our current state of affairs. We lived the good life, just as our parents did, and then our generation abused it. It ruined everything for the next several generations.
Spidey wrote:I’ve had many a discussion with people over the years, in fact I do believe you were one of them, where every excuse under the sun was given not to buy American cars and stuff, so now we hear from young people how hard it is to get good wages…well where were you when others needed the same…What goes around comes around.

I know most people won’t believe it or refuse to believe it, but consumer habits were the main driver of the loss of the artificial middle class.

By artificial I mean the class that was created by unions where anybody with no real skills or education could live in the middle class, those days are over, because we never properly learned how to keep it in the family, so to speak.

But we as Americans are pretty well trained to blame everyone except ourselves for problems…must be those evil corporations…and shit.
George Will got right to your very point today Spidey. Even though the consumer is clearly at fault, corporations need to take some of the blame too. Just like when the Big Three American automakers were slow to adapt when the Japanese automakers came in with a better product and cleaned their clocks, Whirlpool was also slow to adapt to better foreign competition and has now gotten into a pickle. Now they just want an EASY OUT from Trump in the form of tariffs, instead of adapting.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -consumers
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:01 pm

No one's said anything about Generation X in this conversation. That generation is stuck in between the 2 larger generations that came before and after and they're the ones who tend to mischaracterize both the Boomers and Millennials.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/go ... or-boomers
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:46 pm

Here's what Millennial women should fear and it's NOT the Boomers, because it's us Boomer women who fought for and gave them their modern freedoms. It's the Alt-Right and their opinion of a woman's place that should worry them. This troll in the link below exemplifies that.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/zmqn ... toes-vgtrn
According to the Huffington Post, a fringe alt-right group might be to blame. Some anonymous troll behind the Facebook group "Down With Disney's Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys" told HuffPo he dispatched an army of bots to flood The Last Jedi's Rotten Tomatoes page with negative reviews. The moderator—who self-identifies as alt-right—said he went after the movie for its "feminist agenda," arguing that Poe Dameron (Oscar Isaac) is a "victim of the anti-mansplaining movement,” Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) is somehow being "turn[ed] gay," and that there are too many women featured in the film.

“I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as idiots," the moderator told HuffPo. "There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again. That is why I voted for Donald Trump.”
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Krom » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:54 pm

Seemed to me there was plenty if idiocy going around for both genders in The Last Jedi.

But really, the tone I got from the movie was less "men are idiots" and more a massive gushing Love Letter to Genocidal Fascist Dictatorships. You know, exactly the sort of government Walt Disney Corporation would be.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:30 am

Krom wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:54 pm
Seemed to me there was plenty if idiocy going around for both genders in The Last Jedi.

But really, the tone I got from the movie was less "men are idiots" and more a massive gushing Love Letter to Genocidal Fascist Dictatorships. You know, exactly the sort of government Walt Disney Corporation would be.
I was pointing out that troll's telling social opinions, not about the stupidity of the new Disneyfied Star Wars franchise, although I have to agree that Star Wars has taken a dive off the deep end ever since Lucas sold it to Disney. In fact, Lucas botched it with "The Phantom Menace" and eventually sold it to Disney, so it's his fault too. It's been downhill ever since because Disney loves to kidify and mushify everything they touch. Ugh! I won't even pay the exorbitant prices at the theaters to watch that drivel. I may not even buy the DVD either. In fact, I hate the direction they've taken the Star Wars story line as well. The book series was far more interesting and immersive IMO and added many more intelligent and believable characters. They could've just as easily made a movie script from say the "Vector Prime" novel series. Now, they've even trashed the novels with the new story direction. I won't buy those anymore either, so the last ones I read were the 3 "Empire's End" books.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:43 pm

I don't really know what you're talking about. The Force Awakens was at the very least far better than the prequels, and Rogue One was the best Star Wars movie short of Empire. Granted I haven't seen Last Jedi yet.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by vision » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:21 am

Top Gun wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:43 pm
I don't really know what you're talking about. The Force Awakens was at the very least far better than the prequels, and Rogue One was the best Star Wars movie short of Empire. Granted I haven't seen Last Jedi yet.
I actually like the prequels better than TFA, but agree that Rogue One was the best short of Empire (despite some glaring flaws). Surprisingly, I don't have any interest in seeing Last Jedi, probably because I walked away from TFA not giving a crap about the new characters. Also, there is too much Star Wars marketing everywhere, I'm overloaded and I can't take it any more.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:17 pm

vision wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:21 am
I actually like the prequels better than TFA, but agree that Rogue One was the best short of Empire (despite some glaring flaws). Surprisingly, I don't have any interest in seeing Last Jedi, probably because I walked away from TFA not giving a crap about the new characters. Also, there is too much Star Wars marketing everywhere, I'm overloaded and I can't take it any more.
Actually, I thought Rogue One was good too. TFA absolutely sucked. Han Solo somehow losing his beloved Millennium Falcon and then being murdered by his evil child, NEVER! But I've been a fan of the Star Wars universe that's been put out in the novels for years. They've had good and plausible story lines that's kept our beloved characters going for years with believable lives and deaths, and which gave people a constant reason to return and read. TSA especially deviated from that history and not in a good way. I swear that TFA was written by a bunch of marketeers and business types that have never seen a Star Wars movie and had no vested interest in the characters. And yeah, the Disney marketing machine is horrid, bordering on just plain sick.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:46 pm

The Extended Universe had a lot of good stories in there, but it also had a lot of absolute shit. (See: anything ever touched by Kevin J. Anderson.) I don't blame Disney at all for wanting to make a clean break from decades' worth of convoluted baggage and forge their own canon. The Force Awakens was essentially a complete retread of A New Hope, but I still enjoyed it for what it was. It certainly was the most Star Wars-feeling film we'd had since 1983.

And having just seen Last Jedi today, holy shit that was awesome.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:22 pm

When the Last Jedi comes out on DVD, I'll give you my opinion, for what it's worth. :wink:
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by callmeslick » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:09 am

geezus, a serious topic morphs into a ★■◆● Star Wars thread, and some of you all wonder why we're all going to hell in a handbasket.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:23 pm

I used an example of a far right troll's opinion of the women in the Star Wars Movie and then it went off the rails. My bad for continuing it. :mrgreen:

However, I've found some more examples of how the Alt Right believes that women should play a specific role in their "ideal" fascist society and that it's a direct throwback to the 1950's and even the KKK. My point was that the sexual and societal freedoms we Boomer women fought for decades ago are now under assault by the Alt Right. Millennial women should not worry about or hate the Boomers, but instead they should thank us for the freedoms and career choices that they enjoy today and to keep fighting for those freedoms. The Alt Right wants white women solely as baby makers, not self-assured and free thinking women with no kids and good careers.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/he ... 193362484b

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/alt-right- ... cy-sexism/
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Xfing » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:08 am

Welp, it's really hard to put this down to generation really. Some millenials like myself are rather hard workers with no sense of entitlement. Though I'll admit, the fact that I landed a really nice job straight after university while being a lazy, procrastinating underachiever - is quite reassuring. Feelings of disillusionment with studies are very common, since it's possible to build a somewhat viable career with no higher education. Whether it helps or not is doubted by many college students around here.

Still, seems like it's the kids born after like 2000 that think everything should and will be given to them with no effort on their part, though that too is a generalization of course. The parents of these kids are on average still not young enough to understand stuff like "you can't save an online game, Mom" etc, which I'm sure leads to grave communication problems.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Xfing » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:17 am

Oh, and about that SW "troll" - if you can even call him that. Well that's the crux of the issue - if you CAN, then you shouldn't worry about him. Trolls do stuff just for shits and giggles through eliciting a reaction out of people. You should be worried if those opinions are sincere, now that would be worrying to say the least. But in that case it wouldn't be appropriate to call him a troll. Trolls only pretend, that's a rule.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by vision » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:52 pm

Xfing wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:08 am
Still, seems like it's the kids born after like 2000 that think everything should and will be given to them with no effort on their part, though that too is a generalization of course.
I've never seen evidence of this.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Top Gun » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:05 pm

Ancient Greek philosophers were literally making the exact same complaint. It was no more true then than it is now.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:23 pm

Xfing wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:08 am
Welp, it's really hard to put this down to generation really. Some millenials like myself are rather hard workers with no sense of entitlement. Though I'll admit, the fact that I landed a really nice job straight after university while being a lazy, procrastinating underachiever - is quite reassuring. Feelings of disillusionment with studies are very common, since it's possible to build a somewhat viable career with no higher education. Whether it helps or not is doubted by many college students around here.

Still, seems like it's the kids born after like 2000 that think everything should and will be given to them with no effort on their part, though that too is a generalization of course. The parents of these kids are on average still not young enough to understand stuff like "you can't save an online game, Mom" etc, which I'm sure leads to grave communication problems.
Well, some of that can be laid at the feet of both the Greatest Generation and the Boomers. People today don't realize what it was like for the parents and grandparents of the Boomers, all of who went through the Great Depression. As a kid, I constantly heard stories from my grandparents about the hard times, the lack of money and the suffering. They either lost everything or had nothing. My grandparents were Iowa farmers and when the Dust Bowl happened, so they pretty much went broke, lost the farm to foreclosure and migrated west. It was the "Grapes of Wrath" happening with my own ancestors. Even my mother, who was very young at the time, remembers the hard times of doing without anything, even food and housing at times. Fortunately, my grandfather was able to migrate west towards the new explosion of jobs created on the West Coast thanks to WWII and my grandfather was able to get full employment in the Kaiser Shipyards. Once the war was over, times were very good. The nation won the war and was ecstatic. In fact, I think my grandparents and parents overcompensated for those lean horrible times that marked their situation before the war, because wealth and consumerism really took off with both generations after the war. It was like they were making up for all the crap, poverty and suffering they put up with during the Depression. The good times went on for so long that it pretty much became an expectation to get an education, get a good paying job, make more money than your neighbor and just outright consume as much as possible, because people COULD. That philosophy was pounded into us Boomer kids, who then proceeded to pound that same philosophy into their kids, mostly the Millennials. Once the memories of those hard times had long dissolved into history, it was long forgotten by those later generations that came after. People got comfortable and complacent. However, as a Boomer myself who had to go out and make it on my own during the late 70's and 80's, it wasn't all so rosy. We may have been able to get a cheap college education and a good paying job, but we really got burned in real estate when we tried to buy or sell a house during the high inflationary period around the Carter and Reagan years. Now? We can't afford health care when we need it either. I don't blame the Millennials whining about us Boomers however, because THEY can't get a cheap education, get a good paying job or even buy a house. Even SS and Medicare looks like it will be taken down, on purpose. Millennials aren't lazy, they're depressed and downtrodden.

However, you know who really hates the Boomers the most? The Gen Xer's as I indicated earlier. They really got screwed by us Boomers. We took all the good paying jobs because there were just MORE of us to go around and choose from and we were typically the more experienced workers that the employers hired. Sometimes I think that's why Paul Ryan hates the Boomers. He's got us in his sights. But as Paul Ryan and his ilk in Congress go after their enemy, the hated Boomers, they've also been taking out the Millennials as collateral damage. :wink:
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Xfing » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:34 pm

What a story, Tunnelcat! Thanks for sharing your insight. Barring the fact that you're MILF-aged (not entirely unsurprising in a video gaming community, of all things), you seem like a great person to talk to. Indeed, in these times it's really, really difficult to get proprietary housing without a huge mortgage, and renting is extortionate. That's probably the biggest problem. Oh, here in Europe we at least do have free college, and as far as I know tuition prices are rising in the US by the year. I find that a horrible trend, since higher education's availability is getting limited to the children of the wealthy, while the job market increasingly requires higher education. What a vicious cycle. Though to be fair, if I had to feel indebted to my parents for paying for my studies (or having to work to pay for them myself), I'd probably study much harder. Fortunately I managed to graduate, and the grades don't really matter to my employer. Only those yuppie companies like EY or Deloitte care about that crap, but what sane person would want to work there? LOL
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by callmeslick » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Xfing wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:08 am
Still, seems like it's the kids born after like 2000 that think everything should and will be given to them with no effort on their part, though that too is a generalization of course. The parents of these kids are on average still not young enough to understand stuff like "you can't save an online game, Mom" etc, which I'm sure leads to grave communication problems.
ummm, if the were born after 2000, they are still teenagers, an age grouping that generally has unrealistic or unformed ideals around real life.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Nightshade » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:54 pm

Xfing wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:34 pm
What a story, Tunnelcat! Thanks for sharing your insight. Barring the fact that you're MILF-aged
...excuse me...what? I hope TC doesn't rip your lungs out for being a misogynist- though she has every right to for that extraordinarily thoughtless and stupid characterization of someone just because of their gender.
.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Xfing » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:29 am

Nightshade wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:54 pm
Xfing wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:34 pm
What a story, Tunnelcat! Thanks for sharing your insight. Barring the fact that you're MILF-aged
...excuse me...what? I hope TC doesn't rip your lungs out for being a misogynist- though she has every right to for that extraordinarily thoughtless and stupid characterization of someone just because of their gender.
Well ha-ha, look who's a smartass. I happen to really like older women for some reason is all :D That was meant to be a compliment and you know it.
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Tunnelcat » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:07 pm

It didn't bother me. At my age, I'll take any verbal compliment. No grabbies however. :mrgreen:
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Re: If you bitch about "millennials"...

Post by Xfing » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:13 am

Yeah, well it's a relief to know at least you're not like that woman from the Hugh Mungus video

"Hugh Mungus what? Is that sexual harassment?" :lol:
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