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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:01 pm 
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DBB Artist
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@Lothat & Duper

Whaaa??

If grandma's house could magically bleep the f word, then it would be the same thing. We can block everything from words to whole people. So if you don't like X user you can block X user so that you don't have to see him or her anymore. Because grandma's a muggle and can't use magic, afk, it's anything but the same kind of environment.

My only argument is that banning for petty shit is rude. I've had users challenge me. Do I overreact like a bitch and ban? Hell no. I take their request seriously.

"My forum my rulez": Any mod or admin with a blown-up sense of superiority and pride needs a reality check.

Again, I don't know exactly what happened to make sigma get banned, unless you're a witness to the event, I'm going to have to assume they're being over protective.

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
If grandma's house could magically bleep the f word, then it would be the same thing


It's not about the f-word.

It's about the attitude that, when grandma says "hey, please don't trigger the magic bleep device in my hearing aid", telling her to fuck off because you can act however you want to act. If that's your attitude, you don't belong at grandma's house. That's not an attempt to be a part of the community, but a disruptive asshole, and grandma doesn't want that.

Quote:
banning for petty shit is rude


I don't consider a ban for "responding rudely to moderator requests to tone it down" petty. It's toxic behavior.

I'm not a witness to the behind-the-scenes stuff with sigma. But I have been a witness to more than one behind-the-scenes event, and I've been impressed with their moderator staff. They do a pretty good job. The only people I've seen upset with them are Diedel and sigma, both of whom are known around the community for getting into trouble. So my assumption that they're not being petty or overprotective is based on quite a bit of evidence both of how they handle conflict (polite requests first; bans only as a result of being rude to them in response to those requests, and not a hint of pride), and how the people who get upset with them have handled conflict in the past (being dicks in response to polite requests).

What evidence do you have otherwise? You've got somebody you already know to be a "racist cussing ... jerk", somebody who regularly makes violent comments and throws temper tantrums on this board, who can't actually explain his complaint against them but has said vague things like "They talk to me as the chief of a subordinate" and "totalitarian corporate style". You might think the racist jerk is interesting, but that doesn't mean you should believe him when he claims they're at fault.

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Well, you're right that I have no idea what actually happened. But I also have to be really careful to pick my my mods because 100% of the people who want to be mods are the wrong person to be mods. They'd love to be mods for the wrong reason.

For this reason I test the public in random ways when I pick mods. The patient ones that realize what I'm doing automatically become the mods, because they showed that they had patience. They qualify. They might or might not have wanted to be mods, but wanted to show off that they figured out the hidden puzzle. Those are my mods and they smart. Smarter than me. I don't even have to tell them what to do. They already know what I want: freedom, not "security" or at least "minimal security".

edit:

to conclude this boring conversation, (my last post on this) I don't care that sigma was banned. I just accuse them of being too protective because sigma hurts no one but himself when he talks.

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
I also have to be really careful to pick my my mods because 100% of the people who want to be mods are the wrong person to be mods. They'd love to be mods for the wrong reason.


Is it possible there are people who want to be mods for the right reason? Or do you just assume that 100% of people are assholes?

Quote:
They already know what I want: freedom, not "security" or at least "minimal security"...... I just accuse them of being too protective because sigma hurts no one but himself when he talks.


It's neither "freedom" nor "security" that they want, but "community". Communities thrive when you have a minimum of toxicity. How that's defined may differ community by community; for a commercial game that's designed to broadly appeal to everyone from children to grandparents, standards are going to err on the side of "keep it clean" and "be friendly" because the alternatives drive away entire demographics (sigma hurts nobody *here* when he talks because of the type of community we are, but D:U is a different community.)

And, more importantly, the standards are going to err on the side of "when a moderator asks you to change your behavior, respond in a way that demonstrates that you understand the request and will try not to cause problems". That doesn't mean you have to necessarily agree with them, just that you have to understand what they're trying to accomplish and be willing to work with them. If that's not something you can do, there are plenty of other websites with policies more to your liking -- and the beauty of internet freedom is that you have the option to frequent those sites. You don't need to try to make descentbb.com follow descentbb.net's standards, or to make D:U follow Penny Arcade's standards; you can potentially argue about how you think their standards don't fit for the community they want to build, but that's a much more nuanced standard than "omg freedom ftw!"

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:31 pm 
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You hit your head about anything?

I always respect the opinion of foreigners

But you need to know the scope of communication


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:06 pm 
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Isaac wrote:
@Lothat & Duper

Whaaa??

If grandma's house could magically bleep the f word, then it would be the same thing. We can block everything from words to whole people. So if you don't like X user you can block X user so that you don't have to see him or her anymore. Because grandma's a muggle and can't use magic, afk, it's anything but the same kind of environment.

My only argument is that banning for petty shit is rude. I've had users challenge me. Do I overreact like a bitch and ban? Hell no. I take their request seriously.

"My forum my rulez": Any mod or admin with a blown-up sense of superiority and pride needs a reality check.

Again, I don't know exactly what happened to make sigma get banned, unless you're a witness to the event, I'm going to have to assume they're being over protective.


The person who is PAYING THE BILLS makes the rules. Moderators uphold them. Everyone who goes there signs an agreement stating they will follow the rules. You break them, you get dealt with.

end of story.


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:51 pm 
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Speaking of paying the bills, I just put $120 into keeping this site hosting package running.

So while I mostly agree with Ferno's assessment, the only thing I have to add to it is that the rules/enforcement still have to be compatible with the community or there would be no community. Which is a big part of the reason why I tolerate E&C.
Lothar wrote:
Diedel and sigma
Yeah, why am I Not Surprised.


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:21 am 
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Krom wrote:
Lothar wrote:
Diedel and sigma
Yeah, why am I Not Surprised.

He refused to take my money when I offered him the most convenient way to pay.


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Descent: Underground is very beautiful and delicious candy... But they want me to depend on them. How many versions of the game already? And always failed.
Descent: Underground a good project.... It's a pity! :( Maybe I'll play only a pirated copy. Why are you always wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:39 pm 
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I kinda do see what you mean Sigma... I'm not giving them my full confidence either because Eric does seem to want more control than what's necessary for making a good game. Doesn't mean the game won't be good though.
But I'm a free spirit and that makes me a feline mess... --I mean menace!

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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:13 am 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
I kinda do see what you mean Sigma... I'm not giving them my full confidence either because Eric does seem to want more control than what's necessary for making a good game. Doesn't mean the game won't be good though.
But I'm a free spirit and that makes me a feline mess... --I mean menace!

I just go in Titanfall, STALKER and Crysis if they do not change their policies... Although the good old Descent will always be with me


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Listen, they are very aggressive, they broke into my inbox, and they tell me a lot of nonsense. I can find hackers for them, but I'm not going to do. Yet. Nerds just can not understand with whom they talk. Guys, I have to correct you what that limit. But I can also make for you a very big problem. Tell me, do you need it?


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 Post subject: Re: Dictatorship
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 6:56 pm 
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sigma wrote:
Listen, they are very aggressive, they broke into my inbox, and they tell me a lot of nonsense. I can find hackers for them, but I'm not going to do. Yet. Nerds just can not understand with whom they talk. Guys, I have to correct you what that limit. But I can also make for you a very big problem. Tell me, do you need it?


Oh no. I totally forgot to upload that file. I'm gonna do it this weekend.

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