USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:28 pm

Wolfman- Can you post pics of the back side? I like the smaller footprint of that over the Radioshack breadboard...

wolfmanjm · Post by **wolfmanjm** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:31 am

@Zapp - There is nothing on the back side, all the action is on the front, including the traces, the back is just thru holes, and is where you solder the pins.

See this for the traces a schmartboard uses...

http://www.schmartboard.com/schmartboar ... 001-01.pdf

The back side has no traces, the wiring is done on the front much like a breadboard.

forlornpants · Post by **forlornpants** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:22 pm

Hi Everybody
I found this site by google searching for solutions to get my FFP working with 64 bit windows.
Thank you so much for developing this! I have never found another stick I like and I just can't bear to get rid of it.

I've ordered the 'tiny' board, will head to radio shack this weekend for the other stuff. I'm not skilled in electronic stuff, but this doesn't look too hard.

If I get this working, i may just have to dig out my old copies of Descent! Who all can I pester when I start putting this together?

Thanks again

rcll · Post by **rcll** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:56 am

I need to learn how to solder =Got 4 3D Pros in box

I'm gonna install an old soundcard with a gameport for PC but I really wanted one of these for D3 on laptop

Nice work putting this together Grendel and good job to everyone else whos made one

rhulasi · Post by **rhulasi** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:25 am

wolfmanjm wrote:FWIW I did a schematic and PCB using ExpressPCB <snip>

Wolfman,
Thanks for creating the schematic. Did you create it using the original V3 design or Grendels one dated October 23? The difference appears to be:

original V3
Teensy B4 -> Sidewinder Pin 3
Teensy B5 -> Sidewinder Pin 13

Oct 23 design
Teensy B4 -> Sidewinder Pin 13
Teensy B5 -> Sidewinder Pin 3

I'd be happy to update the schematic once someone confirms I haven't misread things

Grendel - Any reason why the pins were swapped round?

Thanks everyone! It's so great to see that this fine piece of hardware is still being used and updated.

wolfmanjm · Post by **wolfmanjm** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:30 pm

I used the V3 schematics, and built it from the schematic I did, so I know that works. The pins are not directly connected to the plug though they go through the resistors.

I didn't notice there was a difference other than the arrangement of the pins

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:46 pm

I was looking @ this breadboard and thinking I could cut it in half to make 2??? Will that work?
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... 38-1046-ND

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:59 pm

If you need to cut that one in half, I would suggest this instead.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-st ... S/-/1.html

zapp · Post by **zapp** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:33 am

So what I did- I got the Breadboard + wires kit I linked in my post above. $13.48, which is only a bit cheaper than if I got 2 of the ones linked in the post directly above + a wire kit. If I were to do it again, I would go that route. I cut my long board in half w/ a hack saw and used both pieces to make 2 converters. I made some improvements in the building- I cut off the overhanging PCB from the gameport plug, and on the other side, I used a hot wire to melt a small hole and screwed down the plug so it doesn't wiggle around. I then covered the whole thing in duct tape for a nice ghetto finish!

londab8 · Post by **londab8** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:34 am

Ordered the Teesy board. Going to get my joystick to work

With the projects for Descent 1 and 2, Freespace, I can't wait to get this up and running.

When I get the board and put everything together, I will post my success or failure.

rplb · Post by **rplb** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:12 am

I've been lurking this thread for a while. Many thanks to Grendel for designing this.

I can't find the Teensy anywhere except from PJRC. Is there a UK supplier? Would anyone like to share on the shipping? There's be VAT, a handling fee and duty on top, which is why I haven't jumped in and ordered already.

londab8 · Post by **londab8** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:38 pm

In the end, it was a success. I had a few problems of my own while making it. Once everything was soldered properly (missed 4 pins the first go around!) it ran like a champ. Plugged it in and windows 7 popped up with new hardware found and that was it. Descent 1 and 2 work just fine. Still working on Freespace 2 though. Must be an option thing there.

Overall, very happy with the way it all worked out.

Thanks to Grendel for giving us the opportunity to use our joysticks again the way they were meant to be.

forlornpants · Post by **forlornpants** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:35 pm

i finally got around to putting this together and it works great! Thanks so much for posting the info

bass_player · Post by **bass_player** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:30 pm

I stumbled upon this site while looking for a method to make my Sidewinder FF Pro work again.

I am impressed by the clever design, but for the life of me I can't seem to find the link to a schematic.

I think I will build the unit as shown in the pictures above and hope to have the piece parts soon.

Thanks to all of you for the nifty piece of work.

wolfmanjm · Post by **wolfmanjm** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:46 pm

Here is the schematic I worked off of...

Or a pdf of the schematic is here:

http://blog.wolfman.com/files/3dvert_schem.pdf

and the associated blog article is here:

http://blog.wolfman.com/articles/2009/1 ... ick-to-usb

bass_player · Post by **bass_player** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:39 am

Thanks for the quick reply. The circuit diagram and the photos should make this a quick build. I might even try to get a copy of \"Descent\"

Finishing_Touch · Post by **Finishing_Touch** » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:58 pm

I got the board yesterday and finished building the assembly today. It works perfectly. I can't thank you enough.

pyrlix · Post by **pyrlix** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:32 am

I am living here in Germany, and just own a Microsoft Sidewinder FF Pro Gameport Edition, which wasnt cheap here.Now with my newer Computer i've got no Gameport and my Soundcard with Gameport won't work at Windows 7.
I tried several Gameport2USB Converter,but none of them worked.I just cant play Wings of Prey or MSFSX anymore.

Now i found this How2DIY but just cant find the Teensy Board here in Germany.I just need the Contraption for a normal Converter and a Circuit diagram for it.And of course the material list and the software to use it.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:18 pm

The Teensy board is only sold by PJRC. They do ship worldwide.

bass_player · Post by **bass_player** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:23 pm

I notice from your photos that the ground pin on the teensy is connected to a floating connector strip on the schmartboard. It also appears that one of the caps is also connected to a floating strip. Is these two grounds deliberately floated, or is there something on the other side of the board that is jumping these connections to the ground pads on the schmartboard?

On my schmartboard (which bears the same part number as the photos) only the three holes in brackets in each of the four corners are connected to the ground plane.

Obviously, the circuit works, but it is a little mysterious to me.

Finally, was there a particular reason to use two jumpers to connect VCC to the d-sub, or was it simply easier to solder that way?

wolfmanjm · Post by **wolfmanjm** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:39 pm

What you can't see as it is covered by a wire is both floating pads are jumpered to the ground rail in both cases, as per the schematic. I'd follow the schematic rather than the photos that can misleading.

As far as I can see there is one jumper from teensy Vcc to a free strip then a jumper from that free strip to the DSUB.

bass_player · Post by **bass_player** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:10 pm

I thought there was something hidden in the photo and was prepared to go strictly from the diagram.

I bought the little board that is really for a 25 pin connector, but the 15 pin fits nicely and it gives just a little more room for the wiring.

Unfortunately, I neglected to order the little clips to hold the board together, so I can't complete the circuit until UPS arrives sometime tomorrow.

Thanks again ---

roid · Post by **roid** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:01 am

i just noticed this video on Makezine

Circuit Skills: Circuit Board Etching

They basically show you howto etch your own circuit boards. It seems quite easy.

The kit (2 solutions and 2 pre-coated circuit boards) is $46.95 USD from Jameco.com
And extra pre-coated circuit boards are $4.95 USD each.

Assuming the solution in the kit lasts,
- To be below the cost of the breadboard ($13.44) you'd need to make 5 of them ($12.36 each).
- You could print out 13 boards for $101 ($7.80 each)
- Or 33 boards for $200 ($6.07 each)

Though you would still need to drill the holes, and buy & insert the electronics which would be $28.52 per board (not including price of etched board).
If you made 5 boards, the cost would be comparible to the original breadboard version. The etched board would look more professional, would probably be more robust, but would be harder to construct/assemble.
I guess it would be something someone would do if they knew what they were doing, and were making a few of them.

Drakoz · Post by **Drakoz** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:39 am

For me I stopped etching PCB's years ago and just send everything to a cheap proto house like Sunstone.com. I don't mean to discourage people etching their own PCB's. I just mean don't be afraid to use the cheap quick turn houses. Most the cost in etching and drilling your own PCB is time, and if you have little of it, it is actually cheaper to get a PCB made by Sunstone.com.

BTW, another alternative to etching is a simple CNC roto-tool type machine to etch the copper off the board with a computer. Search for \"CNC PCB\" on Youtube for many examples. The advantage of such a machine is it's relatively cheap to make, and once it's done, it can both make a PCB with better tolerances than chemical etching, and drill the PCB for you more accurately than you can drill the holes manually. Entry cost is higher, but when done, you have a machine that can do a lot more than make PCB's.

krod1 · Post by **krod1** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:13 pm

Hi All,

I have been using this joystick for 12 years now and really need one of the units. Just went to a new computer and Windows 7 64 with no gameport. I do some soldering but dont think I could pull this one off. If anyone out there has a working unit they want to sell please PM me with a price. Thanks!!!!

krod1 · Post by **krod1** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:20 am

HI Guys,

I just went to the Windows 7 compatiblity center. Believe it or not they say the 3d pro is compatible in windows 7.

I just asked them to send me a USB adapter or even some game port drivers that will work. ( I am sure they are already in the mail).

I guess all the time and effort all u guys put into this project was for nothing!!!

Just call or write microsoft and I am sure they will get an adapter or drivers out to anyone who needs them.

(NOT)

Cya

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:36 am

krod1 wrote:I guess all the time and effort all u guys put into this project was for nothing!!!

if you mean the aid this converter provided 3dpro users all these years until now they released win7 were for nothing, then yes.

oh and, please post a picture of your 3dpro plugged into a state of the art notebook (without a docking station, that is).

krod1 · Post by **krod1** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:51 pm

krod1 wrote:I guess all the time and effort all u guys put into this project was for nothing!!!

I really hope no one thinks I was serious about this quote.

It was a jab at MS support. With that said, I still need one of this adapters.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:30 pm

Your computer's lack of gameport is Microsoft's fault?
is this guy for real?

krod1 · Post by **krod1** » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:33 pm

roid wrote:Your computer's lack of gameport is Microsoft's fault?
is this guy for real?

My computer's gameport has nothing to do with. Windows 7 does NOT support any game port, neither did Vista for that fact. Thanks to Daniel Kawakami Vista 32 bit would support a creative game port but not in Vista 64. So the point being, how can Microsoft say the Sidewinder 3D Pro is compatabile with Windows 7 when Windows 7 does not support any type of 15 pin game port. I hope this helps you understand my point.

krod1 · Post by **krod1** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:02 pm

Thanks Grendel for all the work you and everyone else put in to this project. I got one put together like the one you have in post #26. It only took about an hour and works like a champ. Gonna try one like wolfman's in the near future. Sure is nice to have my 3D Pro back in Windows 7 and Battlefield 2. Thanks Again!!!!

roid · Post by **roid** » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:08 pm

wow i never realised they removed support in Vista, wtf.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:55 pm

roid wrote:i just noticed this video on Makezine

Circuit Skills: Circuit Board Etching

They basically show you howto etch your own circuit boards. It seems quite easy.

The kit (2 solutions and 2 pre-coated circuit boards) is $46.95 USD from Jameco.com
And extra pre-coated circuit boards are $4.95 USD each.

Assuming the solution in the kit lasts,
- To be below the cost of the breadboard ($13.44) you'd need to make 5 of them ($12.36 each).
- You could print out 13 boards for $101 ($7.80 each)
- Or 33 boards for $200 ($6.07 each)

Though you would still need to drill the holes, and buy & insert the electronics which would be $28.52 per board (not including price of etched board).
If you made 5 boards, the cost would be comparible to the original breadboard version. The etched board would look more professional, would probably be more robust, but would be harder to construct/assemble.
I guess it would be something someone would do if they knew what they were doing, and were making a few of them.

not worth the effort. the solution fades quickly. depending on the type of solution, you may have to rise the temperature of the solution to work (properly). you already mentioned the drilling. you need extra space to place that stuff to not run it over accidently etc. you have to take the solutions to professional toxic waste disposal. you have extra equipment lying around (some of it contaminated after use), all that goes into the equation.
if double sided, the most disgusting and time consuming part is the connecting of the pads from the upper and lower layer.
find a local PCB maker and pay these 5-10% more, but have it done when it arrives in the mail, with solder resist and tinned pads, edges milled - double sided, if necessary (upper and lower pads are already connected). and it saves your time. you can ask for a quantity rebate too.
afterall, everything you get additionally adds up to about the same price as if you buy it, but you buy without worries

delveneto · Post by **delveneto** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:40 pm

The link posted by Grendel at post # 26 is broken, file \"3DPvertR3_2.zip\". Please, can this be corrected? Thank you.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:39 pm

Ack. I sent an email to the site owner. Meanwhile, anyone who needs the file: send me a PM w/ your email address, I'll send it to you.

toaste · Post by **toaste** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:28 pm

I happened across this project after picking up the teensy just for use as a dev board, and now my trigger finger's itching! It'll be nice to finally bring the old 3dpro back out of retirement.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:30 pm

just think of all the closets and attics and basements people are going through to find their 3dpros and dust them off after using this tjread as a guide.... Imagine if one of our resident mechwarrior nuggets was to crosspost this thread in the various forums in their communities

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:59 pm

I started a Google Code project for the converter. The hex image is hosted there now. I'll add content as time permits. I'll also change the post on the 1st page as soon RC fixes the boards database..

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:00 am

I don't know if this helps at all, but my Precision Pro actually came with a USB adapter in the box. It has what I'm guessing is a Microsoft part number stamped into it, 98427.

It's awfully small, so it might be simpler to make then what you're building. It doesn't even show up as a device if plugged in by itself.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:23 am

It's a passive part (just a few wires in it) that only works w/ the Precision Pro (part no. X03-57540, product id. starting w/ 85791.) There's a discussion about it here.

USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Re: PCB and Schematic

UK Teensy supplier?

A little help please --

Schematic

Question for Wolfmanjm

Thanks

Re:

Re:

Re:

Re:

Link is broken