Low Power File Server

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Ryujin
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Low Power File Server

Post by Ryujin »

So I'm tired of running out of space on my primary machine (which is currently acting as a server but it's in sleep mode all the time to save power). I could upgrade the RAID 1 HDD's in there from 150 GB 10K HDD's to larger, but I like fast drives in there and I'd like to have highly available central storage for multiple machines. I'm looking to build a low power (< 45w idle) file server running Windows Home Server. I'll be using it to centrally store music, videos, and pictures. I was even thinking down the road, this bad boy could handle IP cam video storage. I also want to RAID 1 it and even have it run backups to an external drive. I'm not sure how much space I'll need but it'd be nice to not have to worry about it for a while. I was even thinking of getting fancy and having it power down at night and then back up in the morning to save even more power. I'd like to use spare parts laying around if possible. I'd love to get recommendations for using my spare parts, otherwise, a new build is fine too.

I have a completed system comprised of Intel Pentium 4 2.0 Ghz, 1.5 GB RAM, generic black full ATX case, Antec Performance True 380s PSU, no SATA, just an 30 GB IDE drive. I am only using this as a local Descent LAN server as needed. :-) I am willing to take some parts from it if useful.

Then I have the following spare parts:
  • Intel DP35DP Motherboard (no CPU)
  • Some crappy Coolmax V-500 PSU
What do you think? What would you recommend?

Can I even get < 45w on an old Intel Pentium 4 or whatever CPU will go in my DP35DP MB? Or am I going to need to look at new CPU's like the Intel Atom or the upcoming Cedar whatevermajig and get a lower wattage PSU?
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Thenior
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Thenior »

Couple questions - if you're doing primarily storage, why not go with a simple NAS box? Also, why do you need 10k drives? The performance increase from 7.2K to 10K is slim, but it consumes a bit more power. Even a 5.4K drive does pretty good, I have a 3TB I use for backup, and it's fast.

Or you could just go with an AMD Atom media server pc with external storage - that'd be pretty low power consumption.
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Krom
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Krom »

That board is a LGA 775 socket on a P35 chipset and will tolerate virtually any Core 2 processor Intel ever shipped, which helps a bit since a desktop Pentium 4 reaching 45w total system power is...unlikely. However, even with a good Core 2 you're still using a desktop motherboard which is going to limit just how low you can get it. Basically the gold standard for Core 2 processors is the ultra-low-voltage mobile parts, which can reach as low as 10w (just for the CPU mind you, not the rest of the system), but reaching that level with a desktop board and processor is basically impossible because Core 2s are multiplier locked and due to the nature of how the clocks are generated, 1.6 GHz (standard idle clocks for most Intel desktop chips) is usually the underclocking limit.

There are a few tricks you can do to reduce power that most people would overlook: clock down the memory, loosen the timings, undervolt it if you can and only put in 1 stick instead of 2 (you don't need dual channel memory for a system that is only ever going to spit out huge media files on a network). Find a passively cooled video card and again with only 64bit memory (more bits requires more chips, which of course requires more power). Use BIOS to disable components on the motherboard that you don't need, probably doesn't save much power but can speed things up by saving the OS from having to load its driver.

Also "some crappy coolmax psu" (probably 500w) probably doesn't help that 45w target any, a crappy PSU probably draws 45w all on its own even if you only shorted the power-on pins without actually connecting any load to it. PSUs efficiency graphs generally look like a upside down bathtub but they are at their worst efficiency at low loadings; so asking for 45w from a 500w PSU is probably going to be near its worst efficiency.

Honestly; 45w with a "bunch of desktop parts sitting around" is probably not happening. The only way someone could really pull that off is to build a whole new system for it; but if its saving on the electric bill you are after, building a new system would probably cost more than it could save (granted, cutting 90w down to 45w in a 24/7 uptime system multiplied over a couple years would probably be talking...). Probably best just to aim for one of the slower and cooler Core 2 Duos (or a Wolfdale based Celeron), buy or borrow a kill-o-watt and see what the full torture test load power of the system is, then pitch the 500w clunker and buy some 80plus PSU that can deliver that amount of power (with some wiggle room to spare) and call it good enough.

Now; about the hard drives: 10k RPM RAID in a network file server is pointless in terms of performance and counterproductive in terms of heat/power. A single modern 5400 RPM hard drive will saturate the vast majority of gigabit ethernet implementations. Never mind that "fast drive" and "network drive" are all but mutually exclusive concepts. Here at my house I have a 4 TB RAID0 NAS box, which uses an ancient system on a chip that can only transfer 5 MB/sec, but it works perfectly for streaming every kind of media we have including bluray disk images to a media player (just loading 4 TB of files on to it is a ★■◆● :P). So high performance drives are totally unnecessary in a network media server. Also considering low power is one of your goals, feeding and cooling a couple of 10k RPM (or even 7200 RPM) drives is going to burn through power without providing any benefits over slower and cooler drives.

If you want a fast drive in your desktop: get a SSD. I have an Intel 160 GB SSD in my system and the difference between it and a mechanical drive is astronomical. It is so much faster that it is basically impossible to describe, you just have to experience it to understand it and once you do you will never be able to go back to booting off a mechanical hard disk.
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Ryujin »

Wow, that's some really good feedback! Sorry I got you guys off track with my bad wording regarding the 10K drives. That was for my main desktop. I'd be sticking larger 1-3 TB 5400 RPM drives in this potential machine. Speaking of that, I am seeing some not so nice reviews on these Western Digital Caviar Green drives I keep seeing recommended in the articles. I only see a 2 watt difference between those and the higher rated Black version so I'll likely get the Black ones.

Regarding NAS vs WHS Build, the NAS is definitely a contender since they offer the lowest wattage at up to 20w. However, I come out at essentially the same price (by comparing energy usage with up front cost) if I build the WHS machine plus I get perfect connectivity with my other Windows machines, flexibility in hardware (nothing proprietary), and all the features WHS provides regarding automated backups of up to 10 PC's, external drive, etc.. It's $150 more in energy usage up to 10 years w/ WHS. And I think 10 years is really pushing it given how fast tech is moving so it's likely going to be a lot less. Plus, the $150 is basically offset by the fact that the cost of a NAS is ~$100 more up front anyway. I'm leaning towards taking the flexibility WHS provides.

But today I just had a thought that is confusing the situation even more. What if I wanted not only a file server but one device to handle all my storage needs PLUS it be the Windows Media Center? See this article which is talking about it more from the HTPC perspective. Is my idea possible though? From what I've read from the M$ documentation, WHS and WMC are supposed to compliment eachother. However, I know Windows 7 Ultimate provides MCE AND I can make it act as a file server and add the share to the libraries of the other machine. I'm just worried it will take up a lot of space near the TV and be noisy. I say a lot of space because now instead of a mini-ITX machine, it's probably a larger tower that will support at least 2 tuner cards plus at least 3 HDD's for the file server. Should I just build this file server now w/ WHS and worry about the media center later? Or is it possible to plan ahead and combine the two so I only have one always on storage/MCE?
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Krom
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Krom »

There is another reason not to use purpose built NAS boxes: they suck. Soon I will replace mine with just a shared array in an old desktop computer because its a hell of a lot faster and easier to deal with.

A little bit of advice about longevity for hard drives; if the drive is good, don't power cycle it if you don't have to. Hard drives are designed to operate at somewhere around 35-45C temperature, shutting them off for extended periods cools the drive down and subjects it to that much more stress when it has to spin back up again. The lubricants within are designed to work best at that optimal temperature which is actually pretty warm to the touch. Hard drives are mechanical, so you want to avoid stressing them when they are cold in the same way you don't really want to gun your engine in your car when you have just started it in the morning. Although the difference in lifetime / reliability is generally small, it still adds up over time.
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Thenior
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Thenior »

I've had really good success with a Qnap NAS box. Good management tools, always fast and good connectivity.
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Sirius
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Sirius »

WHS2011 can do media streaming of a sort, though I'm not completely sure whether it can also act as a full media center machine. I'd think it can, but I haven't actually tried doing that with mine... I would caution you that you might need to do some tinkering/internet research to get everything working properly though. 2011 hasn't been the most trouble-free thing I've ever used, although it's fine once it's going - probably no worse than trying to do the same thing using Linux builds I guess! :)

45W will probably require special low-power CPUs though - I've seen some very low figures out of some of the newer AMD Fusion designs (many of which are passive-cooled and fit easily into an ITX form factor), but even low-end desktop CPUs normally take at least that much by themselves, never mind the rest of the hardware.
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snoopy
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by snoopy »

Have you looked into any methods of using a plugpc plus external hard drives for your purposes?

I don't know how the windows support is on something like the Sheeva Plug, but it would certainly be a big step toward keeping you within your power requirements at a pretty low price.
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sdfgeoff
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by sdfgeoff »

Any reason you can't buy a crummy old laptop and use that as a server?

My craptop (to bad to be called a laptop) only has a 54w power supply, and I suspect it draws a little less than that.
That said it runs XP, ubuntu or mint fine, and considering Ii got it for $5 it's not too bad.
Take a trip to a recycle center or something and see if you can pick up an old laptop for next to nothing.
Eh?
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Krom
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by Krom »

sdfgeoff wrote:Any reason you can't buy a crummy old laptop and use that as a server?
Two reasons:
1. Capacity, a serious "File Server" needs more than what a laptop hard drive has to offer.
2. Thermals, most laptops would likely have significant heat issues if you tried to run one 24/7 in a closet somewhere.
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Re: Low Power File Server

Post by BUBBALOU »

NAS boxes that support DLNA is your best bet

Buffalo NAS support DLNA and AD plus the ability to add additional storage/backup drive via USB externals drives. You can also admin the NAS with a server ad/whs

I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence.
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