Router and Switch for FiOS

For system help, all hardware / software topics NOTE: use Coders Corner for all coders topics.

Moderators: Krom, Grendel

Post Reply
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10346
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Spidey » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:11 pm

Looking for suggestions on a good gigabit router and switch combo for my new FiOS service.

Maybe about 200.00 for both, would like good security tho…

Don’t need any bells and whistles, except the security, and that IPv6?

4 or 5 wired ports each…more is ok, NO WIRELESS!

A specific product or product range is good. IE: Any Blah Blah XXXX series etc.

Thanks in advance
.
When Republicans go low...Democrats go even lower.
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 15163
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Krom » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:32 pm

I'm using an Asus RT-AC66U, it gets the job done. Security, about as good as any other high end router box, it does get regular firmware updates and its base firmware is open source. Confirmed working IPv6 support (if your ISP has it). Performance...Well, acceptable:
Image
(Underlying connection is fiber, provisioned at 1000/400.)

It isn't the biggest or the fastest router in the Asus lineup anymore, since it is now eclipsed by the AC68, AC87, and the outright nutty AC3200, but it is within the ballpark of wired performance and you honestly aren't going to do much better without building your own significantly more powerful router box out of a regular computer with dual Intel LAN chips (think 3+ GHz dual core or better Intel CPU with 4-8 GB of RAM to throw around and a suitable router oriented OS like pfsense or ddwrt x86).

As for the switch, I have a couple netgear GS10x switches, one has been revived from the dead twice. First it had bad caps, a couple inside with 6.3v max tolerance @ 1000 uF bulged out, so I replaced them with some that could tolerate up to 16v @ 1000 uF (comically, the new caps are physically 3 times the size of the old ones despite having the same uF rating) and its been fine ever since, except for when the DC power adapter feeding it died so I had to replace that too. Otherwise I have a TPLink 8 port gigabit switch which has been working with no issues for just about as long. 8-16 port gigabit switches are pretty much classified disposable by now, so anything that fits in your budget will get the job done.
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10346
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Spidey » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:16 pm

Yea, I really need a wired router.

So the NETGEAR GS-105 switch or such…will do the job just fine…? (I assumed the switch wasn't critical)
.
When Republicans go low...Democrats go even lower.
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 15163
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Krom » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:35 pm

The router has a built in 4 port, so if that is all you need then you can skip the separate switch entirely. But if you need more than 4 ports, pretty much ANY gigabit switch will do since there is very little different about them. (Just stick to generic unmanaged switches and it will be fine.)

I think you would have to look around a LOT to find a wired only router these days, and it probably wouldn't be a model practical for home use (think industrial). You can just disable the wireless on pretty much any wifi router if you are so inclined. (Obviously the speed test posted above was over the wired ports.)
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10346
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Spidey » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:54 pm

Ok, here’s another question/s…

Do I really need a 10/100/1000 router for 25/25 FiOS or will “fast Ethernet” 10/100 do? (assuming wired only)

Assuming I could live with the older less secure model I have now, or is the security a definite feature needed because of the higher speed. (I know hackers love high speed)

Or will upgrading give me better speed…just because…

3 questions…sorry
.
When Republicans go low...Democrats go even lower.
User avatar
fliptw
DBB DemiGod
DBB DemiGod
Posts: 6415
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 1998 2:01 am
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by fliptw » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:24 am

chances are most of your machines have 1gbps Ethernet.

you don't absolutely need it for FIOS, but you do gain a benefit.
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 15163
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Krom » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:16 am

You don't need a router with gigabit ports all around to handle 25 mbps FIOS, but if your router is that old it may not even be able to route at 25 mbps. The last router I had which only had a 100 mbps port/switch could only handle routing speed at up to about 5-10 mbps at best, you couldn't get more than around 1 MB/sec out of it to or from the internet regardless of how fast the internet connection was. It could also only handle about 30 active connections/sessions, so if for instance I opened up a bit torrent download and it attempted to connect to more than 30 peers, then connections would either drop or fail including regular web surfing. Where as newer routers like my AC66 can handle upwards of 30,000 active connections (more than any home network could ever need), and you don't have to start even thinking about the limits of its routing speed till you are pushing past 700 mbps.

As far as security goes, steer clear of cloud based services (I keep the ones on my AC66 disabled), don't allow remote administration (disabled by default on most models), and get something that still gets regular firmware updates. The Asus router I have is in an especially good spot for regular firmware security patches/updates because its firmware isn't specific to just the AC66. Asus uses roughly the same firmware for all their routers from the N16 all the way up to the AC3200, so if some security hole gets patched in the AC3200, it also gets patched in every model down the line as well. And I'm actually using a third party firmware based off the Asus firmware but with a few added features (called Asuswrt Merlin, which I mainly use because it lets me turn off all the LEDs on the router).

I originally got this AC66 about a year ago when I was still on 30/4 cable, I wanted to get a newer router mainly for proper wifi N support and IPv6 on the side, wifi AC support was just a future proofing bonus, but while I was at it I decided to go for something that would be able to handle virtually any bandwidth I could throw at it for the next few years. Actually at the time I bought this I had no idea we would be switching internet providers and getting gigabit fiber. And it paid off really, if I had gone for a cheaper model I probably would have had to buy a new one straight away when we upgraded our internet, because there is no way I would tolerate using the ISPs Actiontech router (even if the T2200H is no slouch itself).
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10346
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Spidey » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:43 am

Gotcha, thanks again.
.
When Republicans go low...Democrats go even lower.
User avatar
AceCombat
Owned by Timex
Owned by Timex
Posts: 6510
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Conyers, GA, USA

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by AceCombat » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:53 pm

Krom, your ideas on Smoothwall? this is what i run right now on a Comcast 120/20 Connection using a old P-4 box with 1GB DDR400, dual Gbit nics and dual 80G drives. one drive is the OS itself and the other is the logs drive.
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 15163
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Krom » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:05 pm

I actually built a router out of an older desktop a few months ago because I was bored and wanted to see how much more I could get out of this fiber. So my router is an i7-2700k with 16 GB of RAM, dual Intel gigabit LAN chips and running opnsense ( https://opnsense.org/ ) off an old 80 GB SSD. To cut the power loss to the whole thing, I swapped the PSU in it for a 360w 80 plus gold certified PSU, so it pulls around 40 watts at the outlet most of the time (smallest certified PSU I could find for a reasonable price).

In straight speed tests it isn't really any different than the Asus router (within margin of error). But with more complicated loads, say 200+ open connections the Asus router even with hardware acceleration would hit its CPU limits and bog to ~25 MB/sec where the new opnsense box can hold line speed through basically any type of load no matter how absurd it gets.

One thing to keep in mind is the system you are using is probably nearing its limits at 120 megabits, you can probably tell how close if you look at its system/CPU loading graphs while you are taxing the connection. Even with a lighter OS/firewall like smoothwall, the CPU/memory requirements of running a firewall with NAT aren't going to be that different once you get down to it. Hardware routers like the asus/netgear/etc devices can get away with it at a lower power budget because they have ASICs doing the majority of the work, put them into software only mode without their hardware acceleration and they lose a lot of throughput even in light loading. So doing a firewall and NAT in software requires a decent amount of compute, and a P4 might come up short pretty quickly once you start pushing into the 100+ megabit range.
User avatar
AceCombat
Owned by Timex
Owned by Timex
Posts: 6510
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Conyers, GA, USA

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by AceCombat » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:50 pm

opnsense, is this a stand alone NOS or just a firewall?

i dont have anything to spare other than that P-4. its a P-4 Prescott @ 2.8 and 1GB DDR-400
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 15163
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by Krom » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:43 pm

It has all the features of a typical high end consumer router, with the addition of a considerably more powerful firewall and generally more flexibility all around.
User avatar
AceCombat
Owned by Timex
Owned by Timex
Posts: 6510
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Conyers, GA, USA

Re: Router and Switch for FiOS

Post by AceCombat » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:40 pm

ill have to check it out
Post Reply