Fluid Physics? Water, Petrol, etc.

zbriggs · Post by **zbriggs** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:13 pm

New poll and topic for Core Decision.

Fluid Physics.

http://coredecision.highoctane.biz

Thank You,
Zachary Briggs, Executive Producer
HighOctane Software

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:01 pm

Depends what sort of weapon.

Mass based weapons can of course be expected to slow down.

Light based weapons, for all intents and purposes, really won't. Of course, to complicate the issue, there is Descent's concept of a "laser," which baffles all, even to this very day.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:26 am

Um... light-based weapons can slow down, strictly speaking, but not a lot and it's usually still too fast to notice.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:47 am

i think they should slow down the ship and *some* weapons, but only if other aspecs also change if the pyro is submersed. For instance, explosions could have a wider blast radius, because pressure travels further underwater, etc.

Darkside Heartless · Post by **Darkside Heartless** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:52 am

Probably also want energy based weapons, primarily laser based, to dissipate in the fluid. the murkier the faster it dissipates. Probably also want to make electrical weapons similar to the EMD be totally useless underwater.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:53 am

or if tried to be used underwater it should send a jolt through the ship.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:59 am

Sirius wrote:Um... light-based weapons can slow down, strictly speaking, but not a lot and it's usually still too fast to notice.

Jeff250 wrote:...for all intents and purposes...

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:03 pm

Ferno wrote:or if tried to be used underwater it should send a jolt through the ship.

Or send a jolt through the ship (hindering the performance of a subsystem) and the surrounding area for a few meters, dissipating via inverse square.

It should also make any missiles harder to hit their target, simply due to the change in mass in the surrounding environment. You could also make a specialized torpedo just for this situation, but make it utterly useless when fired outside of water.

MDX · Post by **MDX** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:27 pm

Ships would move slower in water, but would also be harder to knock around. Projectile weapons and missiles would go slower, but move around slightly as a result of Brownian motion. Energy weapons would have a wider area of effect, but severely limited range. Electro-weapons would zap the ship that fired it, but also would zap any ships within close proximity.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:05 pm

Brownian motion won't affect projectiles with that kind of momentum much... it's accurate enough just to give them more drag.

Now regarding electrical weapons in water...

The conductivity of water isn't -that- great if it doesn't have a foreign substance dissolved in it, but if it does it can be quite high. Ideally this would be an environment setting if it affects gameplay at all.

Electrical circuit weapons used in that case will short-circuit, quite possibly taking a path through the ship if it's between the two terminals, but probably wouldn't damage anyone else. However, are we actually going to HAVE those sorts of weapons?

Statically-charged particles, like what the EMD probably is, would just lose their charge to the surrounding fluid pretty much instantly. They wouldn't damage the ship that fired it, or anyone else for that matter... they'd just be useless.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:12 pm

I still maintain that the following question stands: are we hoping for the successor to Descent or to Aquanox?

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:57 pm

Here's an idea. This would be a ton of programming, and in actual game play might end up being nothing mroe than a nuisance. But, why not make the physical weapons travel slower (not much, just bairly noticable), make the ship travel the same speed, but make the controls a little less responsive, basically reducing the acceleration achievable, while leaving the velocity alone. Also, make sure that translates for homing weapons, too, basically making control more sluggesh under water. The two disadvantages are: 1) more programming 2) possibly more user rejection. (Maybe make it something that activates with difficulty settings, similar to some of the DOF.)

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:25 pm

what about relavistic effects wrt to large massive bodies?

MDX · Post by **MDX** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:59 am

Okay, Brownian motion wouldn't effect mass weapons, but the ship at least should move around just slightly (barely noticable unless you're really watching).

Electric weapons could be used in some cases where you have to charge up an underwater generator or something. Then your ship becomes a giant D-cell!

As for the EMD gun: if any such weapon is taken underwater, it shouldn't be too hazardous to use it. Besides, how many D3 players use the EMD on a regular basis? Because of its limited range and MASSIVE energy demands, not many pilots consider the EMD their weapon of choice. It'd make a pretty blue flash on the screen, though.

Also, if a player fires a missile underwater, could the missile fly out the length of it's range and just...stop? Like, float for a few seconds, then sink?