Grounding

bash · Post by **bash** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:36 am

Gonna convert a system I have to a server. Thing is it needs a case and I don't want to buy one so I was thinking of making sort of an *art* server by just arranging the components (MB, PSU, HDD) within a frame and hanging it on the wall (or something like that). Can I simply affix everything onto a wooden background or is there a ground (or earthing, as the savages call it) that exists within a normal metal case chasis that I will be omitting, and thereby causing things to cease functioning? Advice appreciated.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:48 am

You can run a computer in a cardboard box of a case, the grounding plug to the PSU is good enough, even tho the case is connected to that it isn't an absolute requirement.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:08 pm

Sure you can run anything outside a case.
I bet I could salvage up an Elk carcass and run some components flopping around on their cables in there.

But emf and shielding and grounding are there to prevent inteference, noise, and the utmost for safety. Also today's circuits and clock frequencies have increased, shielding is required for these circuits to function correctly.

Also now that we have CPU's with Microwave frequencies and 800 MHZ + FSB with power levels measured over 75 watts just for some PCIX graphics cards (thats hot!) ... please stick to shielded and grounded METAL cases, if not for your safety but for the neighbor's TV reception.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:18 pm

I've run a P4 2.4 outside a case with no problems with any device around the house, including 2.4 GHz cordless phones and the like. If you open the door on our 1100 watt microwave it says 2450 MHz operating freq. The CPU puts out all of 70 watts at the most, metal shielding is not that important, else there wouldn't be plastic cases on the market.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:49 pm

Lick your 75 watt heatsink,

Then imagine what happens when you pop that baby against a cardboard or wood frame on a wall Fire Marshall Krom,

while your at it add up all the power being used by the rest of the system as that is being mostly converted to heat as well.

Oh and for good measure what does opening your Microwave oven door and seeing it's operating frequency have to do with anything?

If you open the door on our 1100 watt microwave it says 2450 MHz operating freq.

Did you mod your Microwave to run in a cardboard box? Because if you did it really does explain alot of things.

So what your phone did'nt experience interference... so that now means that theres no higher energy microwaves around? Wow you should sell phones for spectrum analyzers!

Why do I need to spend $17,000.00 for one when I can drop into Walmart and pick up a GE cordless for $19.99.

Here is a FACT;
Even 3 watts from a cellphone operating at 860 MHZ requires you to be a minimum 18" from the antenna.
Know why?

We are sacks of water essentialy, high energy microwaves excite water molecules to produce friction and then heat.

A cell in your body is just another little sack of water, excite one too much and they pop... dead, gone.

Another neat trick of microwaves is it's ability to reprogram and destroy genetic material as well as mutate it.

If you want to live in a sea of high energy microwaves and exposed wires go right ahead, I'll stick to shielded product.

Sincerely Nuck

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:01 pm

Bash if you got the backplane from a case to mount the mobo, popped it raised off the bottom of a shallow tin box arrangement that had good ventilation for the cpu, power supply, and other fans. You would be able to pop that on a wall and acually not worry about static, fires, and other nasties.

As long as the power supply is bolted to the pan it is grounded and safe.

Cap it off will a mylar sheet or plexi and you would have a safe, shielded, and very cool wallhanging.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:19 pm

CPUs don't get hot because they emit microwaves, they get hot because of resistance. The same resistance that makes your electric toaster work, not the type that projects microwaves about the room.

It's like suggesting that my cordless mouse is going to eventually microwave my hand. Computers don't spit out that kind of radiation. If you have to spend $17,000 dollars on a spectrum analyzer to detect the noise coming out of a PC don't you take that as a hint the PC isn't putting out much?

Inside a solid grounded steel case a computer is less likely to get fried because of stray static electricity, that's what they are for.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:32 pm

Krom wrote:CPUs don't get hot because they emit microwaves, they get hot because of resistance. The same resistance that makes your electric toaster work, not the type that projects microwaves about the room.

Exactly. Right now I can pop out my motherboard and sit it ontop of my TV and it'll run just fine. If RF was a real huge problem, then why aren't cases equiped with faraday cages? Why are lucite and plastic cases being sold if this presented a large problem? Unless you're sitting next to a radio station, you'll be just fine.

It's like suggesting that my cordless mouse is going to eventually microwave my hand. Computers don't spit out that kind of radiation. If you have to spend $17,000 dollars on a spectrum analyzer to detect the noise coming out of a PC don't you take that as a hint the PC isn't putting out much?

★■◆● man, the core of our planet spits out a HELL of alot more radiation than your cordless equipment could in a decade. Your not going to get cancer from a telephone.

Anyone that knows a damn thing about physics will tell you the same thing.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:22 pm

Run it however you want. I have had an athlon 800 all in pieces sitting on a plywood board for a month while it has been running nonstop. Been setting it up with Gentoo Linux to be a TV computer for my room. I just haven't built the case yet. I was thinking to leave the base of the case plywood and make the rest out of plexiglass. I think I'll do that. I have also pondered mounting it on a wall like you mention. Would be fun.

Canuck wrote: Here is a FACT;
Even 3 watts from a cellphone operating at 860 MHZ requires you to be a minimum 18" from the antenna.
Know why?

What kind of crap is this? A computer isn't transmitting 3 watts of rf into the air! Totaly different idea here dude.

We have one seriously paranoid, misimformed Canadian here.

Wang_Lo · Post by **Wang_Lo** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:14 pm

Courtesy of Vindi

bash · Post by **bash** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:19 pm

Thanks for the feedback.

All opinions welcome and I'll make sure to get things buttoned up so as not to be either a fire hazard or interfere with anyone else's television/phone usage.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:07 am

Please point out where I said CPU's get hot because of microwaves. I never said your mouse was going to fry you. Then the next post is saying telephones cant fry you... wtf? Followed by someone saying that computers don't emit 3 watts of RF, um didn't say that either... keep em coming.

Things get hot period, plopping it into cardboard or wood frames is inviting a fire.

Cases ARE farady shields, think about that for a second. And if you insist that they are just for keeping static out of your case here is a quote from someone in the know;Bout halfway down
Before retiring a couple of years ago, I was in the computing field for
44 years, the last 10 of which involved specifying, assembling, and
maintaining PCs, so I have some expertise in this area. Computers are
major producers of radio freguency (RF) electromagnetic radiation. The
metal cases are specially designed to keep that radiation inside the
case. All electronic equipment (including PCs) sold in the US must meet
either Class A or Class B FCC standards for emission of RF energy. Class
A is for commercial/industrial environments; Class B is for home
environments. It is not easy to meet the FCC Class B standard. Do NOT
make a wooden case that REPLACES the existing PC case or you will let
all the RF energy out.

Part 15 rules that apply to consumer devices;
http://www.ce-mag.com/99ARG/Gubish31.html

If I were to build a wood case it would be lined inside with metal.

Owned schmowned.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:18 am

Canuck, don't cell phones put out 3 watts? In use their antennas are like what...3 inches from ones brain sack?

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:43 am

Canuck is going in the right direction here, altho I think you guys misinterpreted him.

Point is, PC's must recieve interferance from other devices, it doesn't have to be microwaves - thats an FCC mandate. Shielding is important. Interferance can cause alot of strange problems.

Putting it on cardboard is a bad idea. Heat + Flammable material = bad idea.

Plus, I don't think you people understand grounding potentials. If the system isn't properly bonded, it can and will cause problems - you may not see it right away, but it will.

Do youself a favor, and just buy a cheap case, you can pick up a decent one for 40 bux.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:24 am

Here is a FACT;
Even 3 watts from a cellphone operating at 860 MHZ requires you to be a minimum 18" from the antenna.
Know why?

We are sacks of water essentialy, high energy microwaves excite water molecules to produce friction and then heat.

A cell in your body is just another little sack of water, excite one too much and they pop... dead, gone.

Another neat trick of microwaves is it's ability to reprogram and destroy genetic material as well as mutate it.

If you want to live in a sea of high energy microwaves and exposed wires go right ahead, I'll stick to shielded product.

How exactly is this not implying that computers emit tremendous amounts of high energy microwaves? And you say the minimum safe distance for a 3 watt cellphone antenna is 18 inches. If you were not saying computers and cellphones fry brains, then what native language were you originally composing that post in? Because there is no way it was English!

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:59 am

Thanks Capm they were going in all directions.

Krom where in the world did you equate computers = cellphones in that post?
Imply all you want, your just implying wrong.

All cellphones don't put out three watts.
Handheld analog = .6 Watts
GSM/Digital = .8 Watts - 2 watts

For research on this thread I am going to get a microwave oven tester tool and wave the wand around a 2.4 GHZ CPU while it's running.

I'll post back the results.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:52 pm

Canuck wrote: All cellphones don't put out three watts.
Handheld analog = .6 Watts
GSM/Digital = .8 Watts - 2 watts

Thank God! For awhile there I thought I was hearing my brain sak sloshing around.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:22 pm

I see your comprehension of English is as poor as your composition of it.

Krom where in the world did you equate computers = cellphones in that post?
Imply all you want, your just implying wrong.

Do you ever actually address anything or do you just babble nonsense and deflect? You run around one post at a time implying things and then try to twist other peoples posts into "where did you get that?". Read the THREAD!

Also now that we have CPU's with Microwave frequencies and 800 MHZ + FSB with power levels measured over 75 watts just for some PCIX graphics cards (thats hot!) ... please stick to shielded and grounded METAL cases, if not for your safety but for the neighbor's TV reception.

"PC = high energy microwave source and will scramble your brains and neighbor's TV reception".

Here is a FACT;
Even 3 watts from a cellphone operating at 860 MHZ requires you to be a minimum 18" from the antenna.

"3 watts from a cell phone will reprogram your DNA and scramble your brain, but this isnâ??t really related to anything"

If you want to live in a sea of high energy microwaves and exposed wires go right ahead, I'll stick to shielded product.

"PC = high energy microwave source. If a cell phone can kill you just think what a PC can do! It will irradiate your entire neighborhood and turn everyone into zombies! OH NOS!"

I hope your microwave oven tester is able to read down into the microwatt range because thatâ??s how low you will have to go to get a reading from a PC.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:21 pm

Krom your impossible to reason with, you take snippets of a post and twist it around fabricating a left field interpretation of what someone says, solely for the fact of trying to win an argument.
Your such a brainiac.

Frankly this will be my last post to you on this thread as it makes absolutely no sense to argue with you anymore.

Point out where I say your CPU, phone, or anything else OTHER than a 3 watt cellphone will cause damage?
Please just point that out Weisenheimer.

I was more concerned with heat... not generated by microwaves from the CPU or anything else... just plain heat. Get that through your addled mind.

Where do you get the reasoning to come up with this?

Quote:
Also now that we have CPU's with Microwave frequencies and 800 MHZ + FSB with power levels measured over 75 watts just for some PCIX graphics cards (thats hot!) ... please stick to shielded and grounded METAL cases, if not for your safety but for the neighbor's TV reception.

(Krom somehow gets this out of the above)
"PC = high energy microwave source and will scramble your brains and neighbor's TV reception".

Did I fricken SAY pc's are high energy microwave sources there? Again Krom, just how do you get your train of thought to derail so badly?

Have you been sticking your head in your microwave oven while it's on to check it's frequency again?

It's time to go, but I will report back on my findings with the meter, and yes Krom it goes into the microwatt range.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:35 pm

Krom your impossible to reason with, you take snippets of a post and twist it around fabricating a left field interpretation of what someone says, solely for the fact of trying to win an argument.
Your such a brainiac.

Left right right left left left right left right right... Whatever. When someone reads through a post they tend to burn off irrelevant language and comments, whats left is snippets like these.

Point out where I say your CPU, phone, or anything else OTHER than a 3 watt cellphone will cause damage?
Please just point that out Weisenheimer.

I prefer to point out that you didn't say anything else other than a 3 watt cellphone won't cause damage when you brought it up. Not saying they won't cause damage in that way is the same as saying they will cause damage, people read between the lines, next time you post proof read it.

I was more concerned with heat... not generated by microwaves from the CPU or anything else... just plain heat. Get that through your addled mind.

Then why did you post the huge doomsday warnings about microwaves and TV reception in your first and second posts? You could have just said "they get hot, don't put it on something that burns", which is more reasonable then trying to scare someone off with microwave bursting mutated cell zombies.

Did I fricken SAY pc's are high energy microwave sources there?

*sigh*, nope but you didn't say it there, but you implied it here.

Capm · Post by **Capm** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:43 pm

you guys are getting a bit off topic ya think? Anything that resonates at the same frequency will interfere. Cases are there to protect the pc from interferance, not the other way around.

Grounding

Grounding

You must have a job designing electronics or sumthin...

Re: You must have a job designing electronics or sumthin...