An act of war, not policing.

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An act of war, not policing.

Post by Skyalmian »

Music Versus Guns wrote:Ravers say cops were too rough making bust

Utah County: Sheriff defends the actions, denies wrongdoing

By Michael N. Westley
The Salt Lake Tribune

Partygoers at a rave in Spanish Fork Canyon that was busted by police Saturday night say officers used brutal and excessive force to clear the crowd.

As many as 90 police officers from several agencies, including SWAT members and major crimes investigators, stormed the DJ-driven dance party around 11:30 p.m. dressed in full SWAT gear and holding automatic weapons.

A helicopter announced the police presence as it crested a nearby hill and began shining a spotlight on the outdoor dance area, said 19-year-old Scott Benton of Logan.

"The cops just came in wearing full Army [camouflage]. It was basically brute force," Benton said. "I had a gun put in my face and was told to get out of there."

Standing in a crowd of people near the main stage, Alisha Matagi says she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when she was thrown to the ground, punched, kicked and handcuffed by police.

"I did absolutely nothing wrong," she said. Matagi was arrested with about 60 other partyers. She was booked into the Utah County Jail on the suspicion of resisting arrest and failing to obey an officer, according to police records.

About 1,000 people were cleared in less than a half-hour from the private ranch owned by the Childs family in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork Canyon, rave promoters said. Several party attendees told The Salt Lake Tribune that officers barked orders fraught with profanity, beat people to the ground and used their weapons to intimidate the crowd.

A video of the opening moments of the bust, taken by Jeffrey Coombs and snatched from the ground by another partier as Coombs was tackled, shows the officers using force on individuals as they took over the crowd.

Utah County Sheriff James Tracy said Monday that he had seen the video and called it an accurate representation of the bust.

"I stand by everything that was done there that night. We did use some force. It was appropriate and necessary to take those who were fighting us into custody," Tracy said.

He also said that no officers used profanity as they conversed with partiers, nor did they punch, kick, Mace or use tear gas on any of the attendees.
"It's all a lie and we refute every word of that," said Tracy.

But the video clearly shows an officer using profanity as he demands the music be turned off.
"Turn that off. Turn that music off or I'll take your ass to jail," the officer can be heard saying to the DJ. In the video, the area where people had been dancing transforms into what looks like a battlefield with groups of officers surrounding ravers on the ground, guns drawn and assault dogs in tow.

"I saw a girl tackled to the ground for no reason because she told them not to touch her. It was vicious," Benton said.

Police said the party Saturday night was the third event held in Utah County during the past month. The all-night parties attract a host of illegal activities including drug use, theft, sexual assault and underage drinking, according to Utah County Sheriff's Sgt. Darren Gilbert.

Saturday's party, named Versus II, had been tracked by police for several weeks, Gilbert said. Police planned the bust when they discovered that the rave's promoters had not filed for a mass gathering permit through the County Commission office.

To have more than 250 at an event without that permit is a violation of the law, Gilbert said.

Party promotor Brandon Fullmer said he purchased a mass gathering permit through the Utah County Health Department about three weeks ago. The purchase of that permit, which ensures water, sanitation and medical services, was confirmed by County Health employee Jay Stone.

Fullmer did not know that a similar permit, which requires a security plan and event details, needed to be acquired.

The sheriff had little sympathy for the promoters or those at the rave. "They did nothing more than ensure this was a venue for illegal drug use and consumption," Tracy said. Officers confiscated ecstasy, marijuana, alcohol, cocaine and mushrooms, he said.

Among those arrested for drug possession were several security guards hired by Fullmer to patrol the event. Guards at security check points confiscated alcohol and drugs as ravers filed into the party, Fullmer said.

"[Security guards] have no legal statutory authority to take and hold controlled substances. It's against the law for them to have them," Tracy said.

Below you'll find some experiences of those who attended Versus II, a showcase of musical talent and all night dancing, on August 20 2005. Contact us to submit more eyewitness accounts of the raid. Please check if your experience is already listed and accurate. Many of these were copied from the utrave.org statements thread.
Randomly Picked Personal Account wrote:Well On the 20th of August 2005, I was attending an electronic music concert in Diamond Fork Canyon, just outside of Spanish Fork Utah. Around 11:45 P.M. I noticed a helicopter flying quite low with a spot light. It wasn't much longer after all of us noticed the helicopter that we saw full camo swat teams rush in from every side... It was like Iraq in Utah. Swat was surrounding the event with guns drawn and in an attack position. With in moments of seeing the first gun, swat jumped onto the main stage, guns pointed, and started screaming at the dj's. At this point I make my way to an officer to inquire about their reasoning for breaking up the event. Upon asking the officer their reasoning for entering the premises the officer raised the barrel of his gun and placed it no more that a foot away from my face and said , "Get the F*ck out of here!" At this point I turned around to witness an officer trying to grab a female in a red sweater. This female is screaming at the officer to not touch her. After about a minute of yelling and the girl continuously backing up, the officer took her to the ground in brute force!!! They were assaulting her. Her boyfriend stepped in and tried to pull the officer off of her. At this point I saw an attack dog released upon the male who was trying to pull the officer off the female. Then 4 more officers ran in and started attacking the male and a 2nd female. I witnessed people being attacked and harassed all around. I saw people's camera's being stolen and thrown on the ground by officers. I was even told by an officer that If I didn't stop taking pictures on my phone he would arrest me.. I have never witnessed anything like this.. Not even in my years of growing up in Oakland, California. I hope that someone from your office takes a look into this case... This is already national news amongst the electronic music scene!
Randomly Picked Personal Account wrote:Last night at 10:00 PM I arrived at a party in the Spanish Fork canyon. I was excited to be there to listen to the great electronic artists that had traveled for to play for the crowd.

Before coming to the event I researched it extensively. The party was %100 percent legal and legit with all permits and necessary security required by law being acquired. The event was well organized, with garbage cans, porta potties, and rope lines blocking off parts of the area that you could no go into.

Now I want you to know that many people out there consider ravers a bunch of drug taking freaks. I also want you to know that that is a stereotype that is passed down through legions of undereducated parents, politicians, and media. There are many of us who are drug free party goers who attend these events for a pure love of the music.

So on to my point. At around 11:00 I was enjoying the good vibes and great music. Then at about 11:30 pm a helicopter began circling the party. Out of nowhere huge semis filled with national guard, swat, and the police rolled up. Soldiers came out of the bushes and rushed down to the party. Carrying M-16s, Ak-47s, nightsticks, and tazers. They proceeded to attack random people and push their might around on people who had done nothing wrong.

I saw about 7 people attacked (before being forced to leave). I saw two of them right in front of me. One was a guy who was walking around with a camcorder stunned at what was happening. A soldier told him to give him the camera now. The raver said no it is my camera. The soldier then proceeded to grab the camera, throw it to the ground and then began beating the kid. In the end they threw him to the ground violently an put their knee into his back while handcuffing him. All for wanting to keep his property. When I last saw him he was knocked out and unmoving.

Another girl next to me said to one of the soldiers that she didn't know how to get home as they had just arrested her friend. The soldier told her to walk home. My friend tried to grab her to bring her with us, but the soldier began yelling that she had touched him (which she hadn't). WIthin seconds, five soldiers had jumped on her and were literally beating the crap out of this innocent women. She was punched in the face, thrown to the ground, and kicked while down. All for worrying how to get home safely. She is now suing.

The soldiers proceeded to attack anyone with cameras or camcorders, obviously wanting to restrict the film that got out about it. This was not a legal attack, it was a blatant violation on our rights as American citizens. And the swat, police, politicians who authorized this, and the national guard knew this. That is why they were removing potential evidence.

We were treated as terrorists, innocent kids without weapons or even violent thoughts in their minds were manhandled, treated like terrorists, and forced to stop doing what we were by constitutional rights allowed to be doing. Our rights were completely removed from us. It was if we had visited the 1960s or communist China.

I hope for the sake of the American people that the news media does not let the lies of the government blind them to what truly happened last night. This could happen anywhere to anyone not just ravers, so AMERICA DON'T LET THIS STAND!

VICTOM -
http://www.myspace.com/victom
Randomly Picked Personal Account wrote: It's interesting to note how one-sided a conversation can quickly become upon having a fully automatic weapon waved in your face whilst attack hounds bark the vicious roar of bestial ferocity intended to strike fear deep into the heart. Evidently, by way of my actions that evening, I was a criminal who's acts were so heinous that suitable reprecussions included incarceration, or attacks with deadly force upon my person, all in the name of retaining order in a fit of domestic terrorism. I am a criminal, and was treated as such, all because I went to a large scale, state approved, and peacefull public gathering. Having no weapons, no illegal substances, no malicious intent, nor any kind of political agenda for the evening, in retrospect this gross display of militant force seemed excessive for such a circumstance, yet with my hands in clear sight, no yelling nor raise in my tone at all, I was a threat to myself, those around me, and to our proud and honorable men and women in uniform. Just a small recount of my experience last night.

Details of the show are trivial to the underlying theme of this article, but to list a few, the name of the show was Versus 2, featuring two artists I was quite excited to see, being DMC Champion turntablist Craze, and Knick from Evol Intent, amount others. The venue was just outside Spanish Fork, Ut., at what I believed to be some kind of construction site or quarry, it was hard to gather details in the dark. I arrived at approximatly 10:15 PM or so. Everything seemed to be very well run. Two security checkpoints searching cars, multiple people in the parking lot directing traffic to ensure dense and well structured parking, and lots of portable restrooms and trash cans spread about, both of which being key details to obtaining a mass gathering permit (amoung others). I just so happen to know that, as it was explained to me by a county sheriff last year, which makes for an interesting story in itself, but will be left untold for now. I got out of my car, and I was excited. The setup looked great, the moon was big and bright, the weather was ideal, and I was ready to hear some great music, see my friends, meet new people, and dance the night away. The venue was set up in such a fasion that when you walked down a path from the parking lot, you came to the secondary stage, and if you kept going on the path, you came to a larger clearing where the main stage was set up.

I made my way down to the second stage, said a quick hello to a few friends that were there, and started walking up towards the main stage. I was about half way up the path when I heard the music cut out from behind me. I could still hear the generator running, so I couldn't figure out why the music had stopped, but I just assumed they were having technical difficulties and thought nothing of it. I thought I'd probably head back down that way in a few minutes to see if there was anything I could do if they were having problems with the equipment, but I still wanted to go find a few people since I had just barely arrived. As I start walking back towards the main stage, I overheard a random person in the crowd yelling that the SWAT team had arrived and were shutting everything down.

I've been to a number of shows, and seen a fair share of them shut down, but I couldn't believe it was happening tonight. It was my understanding everything had been handled to ensure proper permits, legitimate private property with complete consent and understanding from all angles. I heard many people later explaining just how far the promoter of this show went to ensure everything went smoothly. I looked to my right and noticed police officers trudging through the bushes towards the main stage. Local enforcement was obvious, but I still couldn't believe that the SWAT team was there. I got to the main stage, saw a few more friends there, and just waited for a brief moment to see how it would pan out. What I had anticipated, as had happened before, would be music shut down, an officer barks a few orders on the microphone, kids with paraphernalia are searched and/or arrested, the furor dies down, and usually a suitable compromise is made. We turn the music down a bit, kids are asked to leave, but those who are truely there to have fun, to enjoy themselves, be there only for the music, get to stay and pan out the rest of their evening. That wasn't the case this time around.

After the main stage was shut down, the circling helicopter was getting closer to the ground, and that's when I saw the men in fatigues brandishing assult rifles. I had told a friend of mine to calm down, go with whatever happens, and we'll see how it works out. Thats when I spun around to see that innocent people on stage were recoiling in horror from having guns waved at them and orders barked. I can remember one officer in particular demanding that the record not just stop, but that everything had to be completely turned off, which people were scrambling to try comply with the demands, but that's not as easy to do when you're fearing for your life, I can only imagine. As people were rushing to try to collect their belongings, records, tents, audio equipment, the SWAT kept waiving their guns around and demanding microphone access after they had already had everything turned off and shut down. A man in uniform approached me and barked the order that I was to return to my car with no delay and leave. Even though previous experiences were less intense, I had been in that possition a time or two before, I feel a little veterened in handling such a situation. You win some, you lose some, I knew I was going home this time, but there's never any harm in a quick dialog between bystander and enforcement. In more words or less, I made it apparent that I was on my way out, I would passivly comply with whatever was needed to make this go easy, but I wanted to know under which grounds I was being evicted from my peacefull, private gathering. Usually when you show a voice of reason and zero threat of violence, you can at least talk with an officer for a bit. I was only able to ask my first question in a series that I had carefully planned, but the response I recieved was a curled lip, even more violent shouting, a gun pointed at me, and the threat that if I asked a single other question I would be detained or disabled my any means necessary. This is when I saw the dogs attacking people, and other kids being tackled by 3-4 of these "civil servents" at a time. I felt violated. I had done nothing to deserve that kind of treatment, but I felt I had to do what I could to try help other kids not get themselves in trouble. I told people to put there cameras away, I quelled a fair share of the anti-police sentiment amoungst the groups around me. Our small protest, albeit nonviolent, was better saved for another time.

I noticed in most of the shouting, many of the men in fatigues had trouble annunciating, indicating they were so full of adrenaline, who knows how itchy trigger fingers could have been. This full scale assult had obviously been carefully planned. I'm sure it took quite a bit of preperation to get this assult team properly geared up, get the helicopter ready, have probably every single bit of local enforcement that they could muster. There were even several reported sightings of morse code being blinked back and forth between opposite ends of the valley we were in. Many of these officers had also been recognized as being at parties previously, dating back as far as 2001 for shutting events down, and then being undercover at other shows later. Carefull planning indeed, but I am appalled. If you really felt you needed to, you could shut a show down with a handfull of cops and not a single gun comming unholstered. Although upset, there's no harm in being reasonable, there are so many other ways this could have been handled. I reprehend your execution on this one Utah County.

I suppose this is the result of a bored little army, but I feel dehumanized when treated like a terrorist when standing on the soil of a country I show patriotism for just as much as anyone. I've always been a big supporter of ending the war, support the troops, bring them home, yet suddenly a war of some nature is brought to me, and I am the enemy. Am I a criminal? Am I a terrorist? Verbage is freely open to interpretation, but there is no reprimand for such a severe punishment that was threatened upon me. Had I inadvertantly said the wrong thing, or quickly moved my hand, or something that seemed imposing to one of these fatigued men, what's to stop me from quickly becoming a casualty of a battle that had no reason to happen in the first place? This night will bear the example of the most unnecessary act of force that Utah has seen all in the name of the Reducing American's Vulnerability to Ecstacy Act. Tax dollars well spent to ensure my safety, and the safety of my future children.

-Dylan L Elder
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Post by Birdseye »

I saw a video of this. It's not right. Cops should go to jail for it.
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Post by Nitrofox125 »

So what it sounds like to me is that the cops busted up a rave because the host didn't have a mass gathering permit (wtf is that all about?) and because raves are *usually* places for drug activity? That's just not right.
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Post by MD-2389 »

I couldn't read all of that, out of sheer anger. That is not right at all. Its one thing to bust up a party, but to assault the partygoers for no good reason? I hope they get the ★■◆● sued out of them.

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Post by Top Wop »

This makes me sick. Law enforcement needs to be held accountable. They can do whatever the hell they want without consequence.

bull★■◆● to the idea that they act the way they do because of the crap they have to put up with. Police in other countries do not act the same way and sometimes they put up with even more ★■◆●.
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Post by Sergeant Thorne »

hehehehehehe
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Post by Canuck »

Hmm, Police state tactics used in order to enforce by gunpoint your constitutional rights... ironic.

I'll try and dig up a vid I saw of a policeman dying of a heart attack while beating a protestor. I digress.

I've been on the receiving end of some severe police brutality. At one point one of the cops was literally handcuffed and charged with attempted murder, his relatives were very high with Town founders so pffft charges dropped.

Mistaken identity. I looked exactly like, and drove the same rare make and colour vehicle of some coke dealer... I have never even under threat of knife taken cocaine, let alone sell it. Apparently buddy was blond though. I'm not.

Plus for the last eighteen months I was working out of Town at a 3-5 week in, 4-7 day out rotation.

I guess some dude stole a license plate from one of my parked cars, and used it... jeez I wonder who that might be.

I had to go into the local police station to check and see how many tickets if any were on it, for I would be responsible after 30 days for any infractions on the stolen plate.

It took 27 minutes for the ticker to stop printing.
over $1,800 on violations (80's $$).
I managed to avoid payment by that day, and because I could prove I wasn't even in the Town at the times and dates of the infraction.

The cop says I was just lucky, many people are dinged for more.
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Post by Kiran »

I have already lost respects for Cops around here. They let things slide for some people but for others who didn't do anything wrong, they get in trouble.
There are a rare few cops that I have any respect for now, and they earned that respect.
Cops are hired to protect the city and enforce laws. Use brute force only when necessary and not to intimidate or bring harm to anyone so long as that person does not try to harm them nor bring harm to anyone else.
Not too long ago a sheriff was fired because he had road rage while off duty. He forced a driver to pull over, put on brass knuckles, and started smashing the driver's side of the window. The driver had to crawl out on the other side of the car and ran into the nearest store. I think he didn't get hurt though.
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Post by Ferno »

for those who were asking 'wake me up when it happens'..

well that's the alarm bell screaming in your ear now.
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Post by will_kill »

why am I not suprised....ho-hum
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Post by roid »

i am furious.

this is normal run of the mill behavior for the law - especially when drugs are involved.
it seems the law wants everyone to hate and fear them.
Sergeant Thorne wrote:hehehehehehe
oh that's real nice mate, real nice.

i see these cops are people just like you.
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Post by Sergeant Thorne »

If they were people just like me then I would have to have an automatic weapon... I'm pretty sure I would know if I had an automatic weapon... 'cause automatic weapons are cool...

*walks off muttering something about "what they're teaching these kids in school"*

Remember, Roid, I'm your shadow-puppet! (was that the correct term?)
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Post by roid »

the term for people who laugh at other's pain is this.

but in society we have other names for them, but i'll give the swear filter a break and not bother.

i suppose your particular cognative functional preferences (particuly the weak FEELING and INTUITION preference) could make you more prone to it than others. i do go by the belief that various personalitys are more/less prone to certain psychological conditions.
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Post by Ferno »

Seven a.m. morning, came to take us away,
Little men, big guns, pointed at our heads,
Seven a.m. morning, came to take us away,
Little men, big guns, pointed at our heads.
At our, at our heads.
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Post by Sergeant Thorne »

I don't ever laugh at people's pain, whether I like them or not.
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Post by will_kill »

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't ever laugh at people's pain, whether I like them or not.

Thorne, I understood your "heheheh"(from earlier post)....I would have said something earlier but I wanted you to have the first say since I knew some would misunderstand it.
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Post by Sting_Ray »

Book 'em, Dan'o.
:P

Sorry, I live in close quarters with other people, and I hate when people bust loud Sh-itty music near me. I also hate ravers.

C/S gas. It's fantastic!
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Post by Ferno »

maybe sting, but that doesn't give you the right to beat the crap outta em and haul em off to jail..
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Post by will_kill »

Ferno wrote:maybe sting, but that doesn't give you the right to beat the crap outta em and haul em off to jail..
x2
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Post by will_kill »

Sting_Ray wrote:C/S gas. It's fantastic!
ummm...that's disturbing :?
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Post by Sting_Ray »

I've been in a C/S gas chamber more than once and had gas grenades thrown at me dozens of times. The shi-t's not that bad at all. Just makes your eyes burn and makes your nose all runny. Riot control gas is over rated.


And I agree, it doesn't justify beating the crap out of people when they congregate to do drugs and listen to stupid music with glow sticks... but it sure as hell WARRANTS it. I've contemplated murder on more than one occasion with the parties that go on outside on weekends.

You try being out in the field for 4 days with 6 hours of sleep, and coming home to a loud party outside when all you want to do is crash. You'll understand.
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Post by will_kill »

I understand
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Post by roid »

Sergeant Thorne wrote:hehehehehehe
Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't ever laugh at people's pain, whether I like them or not.
:?:
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Post by Phoenix Red »

After reading all the material posted here, the E&C thread, and watching some of hte videos on that site, I think the ravers could use some education on simple citizen-police diplomacy.

Seriously, I didn't see any improper conduct on the parts of the individual officers in ANY video. In the one scene of the guy on the ground, he is a) not being beaten, he is being restrained b) is clearly RESISTING ARREST. You can't blame the cops for looking out for number one, if you fight with them, they don't really want to find out if you're carrying a weapon and prepared to take it to the next level. I doubt that guy had more than a couple bruises to show for the supreme idiocy of fighting with a guy carrying a stick, a gun, and chemicals designed for use in close combat. :roll:

Girl screaming "don't touch me"? I wonder why that could be? If the police are trying to "touch" you and persisting, it's because they are trying to arrest you. So all she did was scream and run away... from arrest. So yeah, they put her on the ground and cuffed her. Scary? Yes. Painful? Not unless you keep struggling.

I think what we have here is some anti-police people who are pissed off that their party got shut down and were frightened, making things seem worse than they were. The only thing in question in my mind is whether they should have been there in the first place, all accounts of "brutality" seem to either be hysterics or totally the fault of the person being subdued. The word "subdue" means I stop when you stop, in case you forgot.

I didn't see any swat with guns out. Pointing guns at people wasn't neccecary, but I didn't see it. It might have happened.


edit: by the way, whether or not you like drug laws, they're still laws. Sufficient suspicion of enough illegal activity = warrent.
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Post by Ferno »

Image
That doesn't look like a swat team member with a gun out to you? To me, that gun looks like a standard-issue MP5 with a doubleclip.

Phoenix:

Image
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Post by Phoenix Red »

Yeah, that's an MP5.

Pointed at the ground. Where do you suggest he put it? He doesn't pick what he gets issued. For the record, I meant "out" to be interpreted as "brought to bear" not "held on to because the thing is too big to have a holster."
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Post by roid »

Phoenix are you suggesting that all the first hand accounts we have read have been lies?

i've yet to read one that DENYS the cops being overly brutal and pointing guns in people's faces for no reason.

your suggestion would be valid if it wern't for the sheer amount of kids who experienced this incident - all with correlating storys of police brutality.

i don't think the videos are particularly special or damning either - i can't make out what's going on. the words of the kids/guards/djs who were there paint a pretty solid picture though, no?
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Post by Phoenix Red »

I didn't read anything about actual physical contact that didn't suddenly sound very shifty when it came to describing what provoked it. I believe most of the accounts more or less factual, but reading between the lines I think people who made out like they were going to cause trouble got taken into custody, and some of those people reacted in a way that would cause an officer to exert physical control (hard not to do when you're pissed off and someone takes hold of you, your instinct is to try to shake it off or push them away).

Police restraints can look savage if you aren't looking close. In fact, it's 90% jointlocks and won't hurt you more than a friendly game of football. When you're scared it looks bad though.

The videos and pictures presented are revealing to me. All the cops seem calm and treating it like routine proceedure. I cite the pic Ferno shows... the guy in the foreground is just standing there, gun down, obviously not seeing anything to get excited about.

The camera smashing accounts don't look good, that's probably the most important thread to follow if you're looking for inappropriate behaviour.



Like I said, pretty much the only thing I'm questioning is whether the raid itself was justified. Since I'm not party to what information, context, and reasoning was used to clear the raid, I'm not going to say whether it should or shouldn't have happened. But once it got started I really doubt anything out of the ordinary occurred.
i've yet to read one that DENYS the cops being overly brutal and pointing guns in people's faces for no reason.
Consider the sources. Sensationalist media and a website with the express purpose of griping about the event. I'd be VERY surprised to see something along the lines of "it wasn't that bad really, they jsut told us to go and we left." That's not the message they're trying to push here.
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Post by Sergeant Thorne »

I got the same impression, Phoenix Red. Well put.
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Post by whuppinboy »

Phoenix Red wrote: Police restraints can look savage if you aren't looking close. In fact, it's 90% jointlocks and won't hurt you more than a friendly game of football. When you're scared it looks bad though.
you, sir, have apparently never been arrested or seen some innocent taken down by a pissed off cop. In a friendly game of football people come away laughing, feeling good and maybe some light bruises. People that have been thrown down, arms twisted up to their ears and knees in their kidneys don't feel the same way, they come away with sprains, lacerations and pissing blood, all for being non-combative and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

but to the post, my brother attends these type of gatherings and yes, there's drugs and all other kinds of things going on, at some. he's been to raves where no one has offered anything illegal, or at least he just didn't know the right people ;) but all in all, it's a bunch of people tripping the light fantastic and having a good time.

the police gathering at this particular event was way overdone and way too extreme, imo. was there a columbian drug lord hiding in the crowd? some black market guns dealer handing out mod'd uzi's and sawed-off shotguns? it's a sad state this country is declining into internally due to outside influences, think i'll buy me an island and stick my head in the sand.........
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Post by Testiculese »

I think it's a little East-bloc to be lugging automatic weapons to a party bust, no? I'm forgetting what country I'm in.
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Post by Canuck »

I read a poster argue a point that some dude in miltary "style" fatigues and weapons showing up at a rave to enforce a violation over the amount of ammo in the clips was not military.

If I was there and some dude waved that gun like that in my face, pointed it and told me to leave, I would'nt be thinking of counting the rounds in the clips... time has a new and different meaning to the receiver in such a situation.

I'd say those guys are a little lets say, overdressed for the situation.
However if it was a rave with a bunch of these guys I'm all for it;

http://hcgtv.com/item/1086

07 June 2005
Gregory Despres with a chain saw
On April 25, Gregory Despres arrived at the U.S.-Canadian border crossing at Calais, Maine, carrying a homemade sword, a hatchet, a knife, brass knuckles and a chain saw stained with what appeared to be blood. U.S. customs agents confiscated the weapons and fingerprinted Despres. Then they let him into the United States.

The following day, a gruesome scene was discovered in Despres' hometown of Minto, New Brunswick: The decapitated body of a 74-year-old country musician named Frederick Fulton was found on Fulton's kitchen floor. His head was in a pillowcase under a kitchen table. His common-law wife was discovered stabbed to death in a bedroom.

Despres, 22, immediately became a suspect because of a history of violence between him and his neighbors, and he was arrested April 27 after police in Massachusetts saw him wandering down a highway in a sweat shirt with red and brown stains. He is now in jail in Massachusetts on murder charges, awaiting an extradition hearing next month.

At a time when the United States is tightening its borders, how could a man toting what appeared to be a bloody chain saw be allowed into the country?
[/end]

[edit]

Someone else posted a common sense sign as well.
I agree more needs to be used rather than violence.

Here the RCMP would have just let them have their little Rave, had a coffee and discussed strategy while the checkstop was being set up, returning and checking/ticketing/arresting the hardcore, every single vehicle leaving that rave as many times they could. Voila, revenue for the forces and not the Ravers.

After all the dust has settled they would also ticket the rave organizers. Fine them heavily.

Believe me they are much more professional, and rarely have remove the straps to their guns.
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