France burns...

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Nightshade
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France burns...

Post by Nightshade »

FRANCE'S INTIFADA: A must-read piece from Amir Taheri. Money quote:

A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of Bondy, Aulnay-sous-Bois and Bobigny heard a single overarching message: The French authorities should keep out.

"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the local "emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood, to negotiate an end to the hostilities.

President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community.

That illusion has now been shattered â?? and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb."

It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

This is still a religious war: of fundamentalism versus secularism. And Chirac is discovering that no amount of appeasement can stave it off.
And there is more...
http://viking-observer.blogspot.com/200 ... nmark.html
Monday, October 31, 2005
War in France, War in Denmark

Lately, the moslem-led riots now running for four days straight in France have been given a great deal of attention, fex from the BBC:

France's Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has promised to step up security after violence flared for a fourth night in a Paris suburb.

Six policemen were hurt and 11 people arrested in the latest clashes with youths in Clichy-sous-Bois, although it was calmer than on previous nights.

Not that well covered is a very similar series of riots, also running for four days, in Ã?rhus, Denmark. Nothing of it has penetrated to the english-language sections of Danish media, so the following is my translation of a piece in daily Jyllands-Posten:

Rosenhøj Mall has several nights in a row been the scene of the worst riots in �rhus for years. "This area belongs to us", the youths proclaim. Sunday evening saw a new arson attack.

Their words sound like a clear declaration of war on the Danish society. Police must stay out. The area belongs to immigrants.

Four youths sit on the wall in Rosenhøj Mall sunday afternoon, calling themselves spokesmen for the groups, that three nights in a row have ravaged and tried to burn down the restaurant and other stores.

Around the parking lot, cars with youngsters from the immigrant community are swarming, and many are walking around, greeting each others with a sense of victory after the worst riots in Ã?rhus in years.

Every night 30-40 youts took part, especially immigrants.

Only two were arrested.

That was a victory.

"We knew, you would be coming. We are spokesmen", said a young man with a black knitted hood on his head, when JP (Jyllands-Posten - Henrik) visited Rosenhøj Mall sunday. He was angry. Very angry. Behind him the pub Hot Shot has scars after the attacks with cobble stones, and the stores along the parking lot besides the small mall have their windows covered with adhesive tape in a spiderweb pattern.

Four hours after the short meeting, Falck (Danish privat emergency service - Henrik) sent a group of fire engines under police escort to the nursery Kjærslund on Søndervangs Allé, right across the street from Rosenhøj Mall.

Gasoline through the window

A window had been shattered at the back of the house, and the fire had been blazing, apparently because of gasoline poured onto the floor, then lit.

Falck stopped on Viby Square, a couple kilometers from the site of the arson attack, waiting for the police to turn up so they could be escorted to the nursery. Two nights earlier, other Falck-employees were threatened, when they were covering up broken shop-windows.

Cobblestones had smashed the shop-windows from one end of the mall to the other. The police wrote in their report saturday night, that the youths had their stones with them in bags, when they came to Rosenhøj.

Cobblestones against bakery.

Saturday morning a 16-year-old somali boy was incarcerated, accused of aggravated assault, as he friday evening threw a cobblestone through a window in the bakery. The stone passed closely by baker Børge Svaløs face. ..

He calls himself 100 percent Palestinian, born in a refugee camp in Lebanon 19 years ago, and now out of work in Denmark.

And then the bit with the drawings of the prophet Muhammed comes around:

"The police has to stay away. This is our area. We decide what goes down here".

We are tired of what we see happening with our prophet. We are tired of Jyllands-Posten. I know it isnt you, but we wont accept what Jyllands-Posten has done to the prophet", he says aggressively, and the others nod approvingly.

Planned for three weeks

To of them are Turks, and it is the first time, that Turks and Palestinians act together, the 19-year-old says.

"We have planned this for three weeks. That is why only two were arrested saturday nigh. The police will cordon off it all. But we know the ways out", he claims, and then disappears, munching on a piece of pizza from Fun Pizza.

The pizzerias windows are also held together by adhesive tape after the attacks with cobblestones.

Of course, it isnt of the size the Paris riots have, but then France is 10 times larger than Denmark, population-wise, and has 25 times more moslems.
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Post by De Rigueur »

Are we gonna have to go rescue France again?
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Post by woodchip »

So the Franco beaks are finding the air is soiled no matter how high they elevate their gallic noses.
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Post by Robo »

[Edit - I take that back]
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Post by Bet51987 »

Awhile back, I mentioned the two Muslim girls in my school that I tried to be friends with. It started out ok, then they tried to convert me. Thats all they talked about between classes. Most kids started to shy away from them and they keep pretty much to themselves now....no friends.

Then, when they found out I was an agnostic, they flat out shunned me. I tried to talk to them, but I gave up. I say hello when our paths cross, but they won't even look at me. Their loss, not mine.

I can picture them now reading and smiling about France.....at least thats whats in my mind.

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Post by De Rigueur »

From an AP article: "Dozens of residents and community leaders were stepping in to defuse tensions, with some walking between rioters and police to urge youths to back down."

Maybe the situation is not entirely hopeless.
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Post by CUDA »

Chirac fiddles whiel Paris burns. 9 days now?? he should have called in the Army 6 days ago. but I understand why he didnt they probably would have lost
and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless
HEH now there's a revelation
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Post by Couver_ »

Le Fire!!
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Post by woodchip »

De Rigueur wrote:From an AP article: "Dozens of residents and community leaders were stepping in to defuse tensions, with some walking between rioters and police to urge youths to back down."

Maybe the situation is not entirely hopeless.
Doesn't seem to be working:

"The violence - originally concentrated in neighborhoods northeast of Paris with large immigrant populations - has spread across France, extending west to the rolling fields of Normandy and south to resort cities on the Mediterranean. Attacks were reported in Cannes and Nice."
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Post by iten »

Robo wrote: Muslims causing more trouble. Anywhere they are, they'll cause it.
I hope to God that's a joke.
Bet51987 wrote: I can picture them now reading and smiling about France.....at least thats whats in my mind.
I don't think they would be. The base of this is really a matter of the French people mistreating these Muslim immigrants. A just cause, I would think, but they screwed it up terribly when this started escalating into rioting.
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Post by woodchip »

"It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire."

I bet they would assimilate if they had the education and jobs the "real" french have.
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Post by De Rigueur »

iten wrote: they screwed it up terribly when this started escalating into rioting.
I hope they don't start using suicide bombers.
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Post by will_kill »

woodchip wrote:"It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire."
I bet they would assimilate if they had the education and jobs the "real" french have.
You may be thinking of the African-Americans ability to assimilate/contribute to white culture. With the Muslim's it is totally different. Their reason's for their inability to assimilate is largely due to religious differences. Unless the society, as a whole, has the basic fundamental Muslim structure, they will not bend...nor do they break too easy, as the world will see within a decade.
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Post by Couver_ »

Thats why I wish (like it would happen) that France would just kinda give in. Let them have their own neighbor hoods whatever. Then cut off all federal funding water garbage power etc etc. Let them start from scratch and see how they get along. I feel they are just waiting for some 16-17 year old kid to declare himself the leader of the Muslims so they can surrender to him.

Euro Disney would then have such great things such as Osama Mountain, the Jihad mine train and infidel falls. I wonder how Mickey will look in a turban?
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Post by Will Robinson »

De Rigueur wrote:
iten wrote: they screwed it up terribly when this started escalating into rioting.
I hope they don't start using suicide bombers.
I hope they do but decide to test the bombs privately before trying them in public....
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Post by Lothar »

Couver_ wrote:Thats why I wish (like it would happen) that France would just kinda give in. Let them have their own neighbor hoods whatever. Then cut off all federal funding water garbage power etc etc.
Unfortunately, that's not too far off from how France has treated them for years... it's no wonder they're pissed. I'd normally be all over Muslims for a variety of reasons relating to their religion... but in this case, white France shares much of the blame.

The fact is, white France isn't much less racist now than Georgia was in the early 60's, by which I mean 1860's. Black Muslims are openly discriminated against, can't get jack for jobs, and are generally forced to live in huge concrete monstrosities provided by the welfare state. They're basically confined to ghettos.

This leads to bad things all around.

The people rioting are definitely to blame. France is also to blame for the system they've set up -- while it doesn't cause the rioting, it's certainly making it worse. We'll see if they can manage to step up and deal with the core issues.
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Post by Duper »

ya know Lothar, that's all kinda puzzling considering that a couple of France's "bed partners" are Muslem nations.
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Post by Couver_ »

Lothar I agree in principle to most of what you said. Just if it is so bad in France why did they move there?

Its like McCain said last night don't move to America to make it change to you where you came from. Move to America to be an American and celebrate the diversity. Live how you want to just don't infringe on others. I read somewhere where the whole of Europe is on the decline IE birthrates, and the minorties now are going to be the majority. Kinda like Texas and other states where whites are not the majority. Nothing wrong with that at all I think. Just that when people are comming over the border for better things expect a free hand out without doing anything sucks

Its hard to articulate how I stand on this. I have been drinking most the day( Go half days!!) and don't want to come off wrong.

It just makes me mad when illegals can come in get free health care the whole american dream and not pay taxes. Yes it is the fault of the employers for paying them under the table. I also know they "do the job no one else wants" (IE South Park Goobacks)but why should we subsidise and give them rights they don't deserve? There is going to come a day when we are going to run out of money to help a lot of programs because the tax dollars are not going to be there. If they came up went to work saved hard paid taxes and went home Good On Them!!

Just don't come here no matter where from and expect a hand out just cause you live in the states. God I feel like I am a 1930's isolationist but for fecks sake where does it end?


*disclaimer the above poster was/is drunk and has the ability to articulte and spell like a 15 year old on crack.

P.S. No grammer Nazis yes Mobi this means YOU!!! :P
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Post by woodchip »

I think the real root problem is Euro-socialism. All types of people flock to where they know at the very least they'll get a roof over their head and a stipend for the bare neccessities.
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Post by De Rigueur »

Duper wrote:ya know Lothar, that's all kinda puzzling considering that a couple of France's "bed partners" are Muslem nations.
I guess snubbing the US is not enough to secure Muslim loyalty.

I hear that arson is down now. Maybe they're running out of cars to burn.
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Post by Zuruck »

I guess Chirac called Bush and asked him how to deal with a domestic crisis. Wait two weeks and see if the situation solves itself. If it doesn't, smirk and talk about the good 'ole days of doing coke off of some two dollar whore's back.
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Post by Ferno »

I can't believe some of the ignorant and bigoted replies I'm seeing here. it's disgusting.
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Post by Flabby Chick »

x2
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Expect a house er thread cleaning ..

Post by KoolBear »

This thread may need some re-arranging, continue your discussion but refrain yourselves please.
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Post by De Rigueur »

Will Robinson wrote:
De Rigueur wrote:
iten wrote: they screwed it up terribly when this started escalating into rioting.
I hope they don't start using suicide bombers.
I hope they do but decide to test the bombs privately before trying them in public....
An unconsciously prophetic utterance, Will:

MALANG, Indonesia (AP) - One of Southeast Asia's most wanted terrorists apparently blew himself up Wednesday to escape capture when an elite security unit attacked his hideout, Indonesia's president said. Two other suspected militants were thought killed in the blast.

Known as the "Demolition Man" for his expertise with explosives, Azahari bin Husin was a key figure in Jemaah Islamiyah, a terror network with links to al-Qaida that has been blamed for a series of deadly bombings as well as failed plots in Indonesia, the Philippines and Singapore.
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Post by will_kill »

I'll have to agree with Ferno and Kool here...some of the comments are a bit jaded for my taste and considering the level of intelligence for the average poster on these boards, bordering on racist.
Let's not forget the riots of the civil rights movement here in America. African-American's had had enough, and justly so. With Muslim's being in the same situation (in France) the riots can be compared to a drowning individual crying out for a savior.
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Post by iten »

will_kill wrote:I'll have to agree with Ferno and Kool here...some of the comments are a bit jaded for my taste and considering the level of intelligence for the average poster on these boards, bordering on racist.
Let's not forget the riots of the civil rights movement here in America. African-American's had had enough, and justly so. With Muslim's being in the same situation (in France) the riots can be compared to a drowning individual crying out for a savior.
x2
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Post by will_kill »

well alright...my very first 'x2' :)
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Post by De Rigueur »

will_kill wrote:. . . With Muslim's being in the same situation (in France) the riots can be compared to a drowning individual crying out for a savior.
If that is true, then I wish them success.
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Post by Ferno »

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Post by Lothar »

The problem is not that people are trying to remove the safety net (French socialism.) The problem is that most of the Muslim population in France is forced to rely on the safety net -- they can't get jobs because they're discriminated against (and because the government employs something like 30% of the workforce), and therefore they can't afford to live anywhere but the crap public housing provided for them.

What France needs is a reformed system that doesn't force people into ghettos... a system that allows people a legitimate opportunity to climb out of the safety net rather than remaining stuck in it for their whole lives... a system that allows outsiders the opportunity to become part of society instead of remaining outsiders. They need a system where immigrants can busy themselves outperforming the natives rather than sit at home all day stewing about being unemployed.
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Post by DCrazy »

Lothar wrote:What France needs is a reformed system that doesn't force people into ghettos... a system that allows people a legitimate opportunity to climb out of the safety net rather than remaining stuck in it for their whole lives... a system that allows outsiders the opportunity to become part of society instead of remaining outsiders. They need a system where immigrants can busy themselves outperforming the natives rather than sit at home all day stewing about being unemployed.
I think the French term for it is "laissez faire", roughly translated as "you're on your fricken own now". The French government should neither help nor relegate any specific sect of people. The French only have their own insitution of "public assistance" to blame.

I'm surprised the German population hasn't risen up yet. Then again, the French are more overtly racist and their programs less affluent than those of the Germans.

[/thoughtless knee-jerk reaction]
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