USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by flip » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:29 am

Somehow, the DBB sent the message I intended for you to my e-mail. I sent one to the email you provided and thank you greatly for your time.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by sonic74 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:08 pm

Thanks for reviving my rusty old Sidewinder 3D Pro! Fritzing file and pinout of my build available here.

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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Do_Checkor » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:57 am

Alright - so I'm throwing in my 5 cents :-)

This is my Version (this current pics are without the case but I'll add more pics and Versions soon):

http://www.descentforum.de/forum/viewto ... 9168#59168

Thanks a LOT Gren! Yo da man!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:48 pm

I split the Force Feedback Pro discussion into its own topic -- here.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by vampy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:59 pm

Sorry for the question!

So which capacitors and resistors do i need ?

I dont use a breadboard and not the DB15F, i use wanna use a normal sub d connector which i solder on a grid perforated sheet.

Thanks! ;)
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:05 pm

2x 1nF and 2x 1k.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by vampy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:12 pm

Thanks Grendel, you are the best xD
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Habbe » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:26 am

Is the Tweeny a must? I found another similar product to the tweeny which I would like to use. It seems like it has almost the same processor as the tweeny.

I have basically no idea of what the difference is between the two, maybe the one I was hoping to use isn't compatible at all?
Link to the one I was thining of using: Atmega8U2 Breakout Board


By the way, thanks for taking your time and making this thread! Bloody awesome to let these old sidewinders see daylight again! :)
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Cur » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:42 pm

Allo everyone!

Cant thank you all enough for doing this, i have a Sidewinder 3D pro and in comparison to all the modern sticks... its still vastly superior imo!

Have orderd enough parts for 3, but may have stuffed up on the order and the breadboard is 2x the size of the one you guy's used. :S Hopefully it'll work regardless or i'll be able to cut it in half and use it anyway :P

Will let you know how i go!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Habbe » Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:45 am

I just ordered a Teensy USB DB. Just to be sure.

I will post my build when It's finished!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by omn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Hello.

During years I've never thought about it, but now I feel nostalgic and it is almost new.

In 1999 I've bought the Microsoft SideWinder Wheel with Force Feedback. It has gameport, and since I got a laptop (about 2004) I've never used it again. Anyway I always though that the adapter would solve it, but for what I searched, it is incompatible.

I've an external sound card, but it hasn't the game port, and for what I search, there isn't an external sound card with that port, so, it is hard to solve this problem.

I loved the force feedback, but I would have no problem of losing it.

Is there any chance of make it work? And in Win 7? Should I truly lose my hopes?


Thanks in advance for your time.

Best regards
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Fiend » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:00 am

Is all this still accurate? If I order parts can I still build this? (even though I want that analog hat :P ) I have 3 3d sw pros in the mail btw...
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:13 am

Yes. This should do it.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Fiend » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:04 pm

thx man
edit: thx just doesn't say enough, thanks for your time, support, and skill. i just ordered the teensy board (seems i have all the other parts), and will give it a go. thx again
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Fiend » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:35 pm

Grendel is da shiznit.
edit: in da hizzie
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Fiend » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:19 pm

Success!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Foil » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:17 am

Nice!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by innoderek » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:12 am

Hi Grendel,

I have noticed this thread quite a number of years ago. And until now, I just built my own converter. But unfortunately, my build was not working. After plenty of researching, I figured out that my teensy board was in a version of 1.0 instead of 2.0 used by most of the people here. Since I know nothing about programing, I do not know how to re-write a hex image for my teensy 1.0 broad. So, could you please re-write a hex image for me? Thank you very much. Please forgive my poor English at any place.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Thu May 03, 2012 3:45 pm

This got resolved in a PM discussion.

For the record:
Grendel wrote:The 3DP-Vert source code is available here.

The code actually can be compiled for the Teensy 1.0 board, just set the CPU to at90usb162 (in AVR Studio 4 --> Project --> Configuration Options --> General --> Device)
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by vampy » Fri May 04, 2012 7:04 am

Done, i made it ;)

Image

The only problem i have is, that when i move the button in the bottom picture up, it will move down. What i mean is that the button is inverted. How can i fix this?

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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Foil » Fri May 04, 2012 8:26 am

For what game? Typically most games have an "invert axis" setting you can use.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by vampy » Fri May 04, 2012 8:49 am

It is inverted in the windows configuration setup, in bf3 ist works the way it should (not inverted).
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Fri May 04, 2012 11:10 pm

It's the way the stick creates these values. All axis values are pretty much passed through (after adding -(max/2)). Best way to flip it would be via the program you want to use the stick with. If you insist, the values are assembled in CopyFFPDate in 3DProasm.S, look for the "Throttle" comment. I would advise against it tho, it's pretty hairy code... :mrgreen:
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Uaine » Sun May 06, 2012 4:58 pm

Wow, great work on all this. I am in awe. I experimented with this a long time ago, and gave up. I have a 3D Pro covered in a thick layer of dust, just waiting to see some action again :)

Do you know if this would work for the Sidewinder gamepads as well? From what I've read, most gameport->USB adapters don't work for them, because they're digital, but it seems like your device is able to handle some other digital Sidewinder devices.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Mon May 07, 2012 12:28 pm

In theory it should work but I never did the ground-work to support them (wich axis to trigger, packet make-up, special handling etc.)
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Uaine » Mon May 07, 2012 4:42 pm

"in theory" is good enough for me :)

I'm going to try this just to get the 3D Pro running again; if it can get the gamepads working too it is a nice bonus. The gamepads had a nice feature that you could chain up to 4 of them together, and they'd all work off one gameport. I'd love to get that working, but I expect it will require me to put in a little extra effort.

Time to get some parts ordered!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Top Gun » Mon May 07, 2012 5:58 pm

Was that the gamepad with the tilt sensors in it? I think my one neighbor had one of those hooked up to Descent once, and it was an interesting way to play, albeit probably a wrist-killer.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Uaine » Mon May 07, 2012 6:58 pm

Top Gun wrote:Was that the gamepad with the tilt sensors in it? I think my one neighbor had one of those hooked up to Descent once, and it was an interesting way to play, albeit probably a wrist-killer.
The ones I have are the 1st gen Sidewinder gamepads. The Sidewinder Freestyle Pro had the tilt sensors, and I never had one, but I always wanted one. According to the Wikipedia page, it actually came with a USB adapter.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by reginald » Thu May 10, 2012 9:40 am

Hi I am new here. I recently upgraded to win7 and realised I had lost my game port.. Having read the thread I decided to build the usb link. Being in England we have teensy type clone called minimus (at90USB162) http://www.modtraders.co.uk/minimus-avr ... board.html @£4.95. I downloaded the source from http://code.google.com/p/sw3dprousb/ (many thanks) and recompiled for AT90usb162. The boards pinouts are in a different sequence but are labelled. Built the resistors & caps on to the back of the game socket. Programmed with flip and amazingly it works. Many Thanks for all the work done in this thread and I hope this will help someone out.

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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Fiend » Thu May 10, 2012 12:24 pm

Been using the converter for over a month now. It's flawless. Not one problem! If you are lurking and considering making one, do it! I didn't have to change a single setting in d1, d2, or d3. The converter is perfect. Very, very nice work Grendel!
edit: I use the converter in XP and win7 64bit, didn't even need a driver.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by jtrod02 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:32 am

I appoligize for resurrecting this thread so please not sure if I should have started a new thread.joined the forum when I found this topic. Thank you to all for making the use of the sidewinder a possibility. Got all the parts and attempetd to get my old FFB sidewinder running. I am either a complete imbicele of my stick is not opperational. Constructed the board according to schematics and got the teensy (V. 2) programed. Joy stick initializes, centers, etc. seems to be ready but..... the stick/ converter setup is recognized as "USB input device" not as a game device when plugged in a usb powered hub. when plugged in directly to a computer USB port the device is seen as a not recognized device. Why the difference.? I have tried all versions of the hex image, 1 and 2, havent done the registry thing with v1, just wanted to see if there was a dfifference- no go. have programed the board with stick attached and stick not attached. I have read all posts several times to see what i am missing...... what am i doing wrong? Have rewired the breadboard several times, have reprogramed the poor teensy several times, even tried the version one teensy hex, justin case I was sent the wrong board. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I almost fainted with excitement when I found this page, being able to ressurect my beloved sidewinder after 10+ years..... bliss. Oh, I forgot Computer running Windows 7 (x64).
Thanks.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:41 pm

Can you take and post some pictures of the device ?
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by jtrod02 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:40 pm

Attached are pictures of the board. Hope I did this right.
012.jpg[/attachment [attachment=1]011.jpg
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Took the stick apart last night to see if there was anything amiss, loose wires etc. everything looked ok. this whole process has become very frustrating... I can almost taste it. Like I stated previously the joystick seems to initialize, but the OS does not seem to know what the "USB input device" is or what to do with it. Under device manager I get:
"USB input device"- Properties: Hardware: "HID compliant device" and "USB input device". Beginning to think the joystick may be defective in some fashion.

apologies for the large pictures, have to figure out how to resize.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Grendel » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:54 pm

Looks ok after a quick glance :(

Two things tho:

- Did you cut off the SH pin ? If not, cut it off.
- Your resistors look like they are 220k (red-red-yellow) instead of 2.2k (red-red-red). Not sure what would happen if that's true. Try 2.2k or 1k (brown-black-red) resistors.

Couldn't make out he marking on the caps, they need to be 1nF or 2.2nF.

The board appears to be a Teensy 2.0.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by jtrod02 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:18 pm

Yes, Yes Yes, It lives! It works. Thank you for your keen eye, wasn't paying attention to the color bands on resistors. got so fixated with getting the stick to work that i missed the most obvious problem, teach me to store 220 's next to 2.2 resistors and not pay attention to what i'm doing. Thank your for your observation and getting it to work. Now to an attic search and find my Descent and Freespace games. Will also be on the lookout to score some more neglected and unwanted Sidewinders for resonable prices (never gonna let my sidewinders go again)! Thank you for all your work on this project and for being so responsive to my post(s).
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Enzo-03 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:48 am

I've been looking at this and began to wonder something.

I don't have any M$ Sidewinder products but I *do* have this other old gameport joystick I've really been wanting to use for some years now.

I've been wondering if I could modify this (and if so, how I could) to work with it..

...specifically, it is a Suncom F-15E Talon..
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Krom » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:28 am

It isn't like this adapter couldn't be programmed to do it, but if it is just a regular analog joystick you want to use, it should work on commercially available gameport to USB adapters you can get from amazon or other online stores. You only really need this one for the MS Sidewinder proprietary digital mode which doesn't work on regular adapters.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by Enzo-03 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:25 pm

I see. Thanks.

I'd have to say I don't completely understand this converter, and I definitely do not completely understand the joystick I'm trying to figure out how to get working.

But lately I've been very interested in rolling my own converter, partly for fun. Not interested in getting full functionality from the stick (apparently all buttons and hat positions for both castle and coolie hats were programmable to keystrokes and could be hooked up to Suncom SFS Throttle for a HOTAS setup..) but wanting to get it workable with, say, Jane's F-15, or even Descent of course.

If I really knew what I was doing though I'd try and convert the joystick itself (there's a thread on an x-plane forum about someone who did exactly this, but there aren't really much in the way of details). Maybe sometime in the future when I'm better at working with hardware.
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by TheBug » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:49 pm

Hey guys, just a quick note to say this sticky thread is still serving its purpose. Big-time thanks to Grendel and everyone else who has helped keep the spirit of this game alive. Years ago I played Descent I/II/3 on a Mac, and spent many many hours in co-op and anarchy with my son starting when he was 10. My joystick was the Sidewinder 3D Pro (Mac version, with the DIN-9 serial connector on it). That stick became useless when Macs went to USB, just like when Windows dropped the gameport. I tried a couple USB sticks but nothing came close to the Sidewinder, and I'm hopeless with just mouse and keyboard. Descent fell by the wayside. I've missed it, and missed the game time with my son.

Yesterday I finished the breadboard version of Grendel's 3DP-Vert-r3 converter, and plugged in a used gameport Sidewinder 3D Pro. I've got the Windows version of Descent 3 running in Windows XP Pro, hosted in VMware Fusion 4, which is running under Mac OS 10.7.4 on an iMac with a quad-core 2.5GHz i5. Believe it or not, and I couldn't believe it (yeah, I know that all the layers are supposed to work perfectly together, but...) IT WORKS FLAWLESSLY!

My son (now in his 20's) has Descent running under Linux (he's a keyboard player now) and has been bugging me about getting the game going on my Mac so he can host games for us. Thanks to the 3DP-Vert, we're going to be back in the mines! Thank you, thank you!
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Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP

Post by delveneto » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:51 am

I know this is old thread but I want to thanks Grendel. I have been following this thread (and its predecessors) for many years and only after the breadboard solution was found that I knew that I could finally dream of making myself a converter for my joystick. So, around 2 years ago, I bought all the parts and, for some reason, only now I decided to put them all together. Took me a couple of hours because I am slow anyway, but I assembled it and it worked and is working flawlessly. So thanks for your hard work and for keeping this thread online. Many times we save a link, for some interesting thing that we will "come back later" to take a better look, and when we come back (later meaning years later... :D ) we find the link broken, information is gone.
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