223 unknown genes

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:55 am

the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Genesis 6:2

Discuss

EDIT: I think people would have a much easier time accepting these things had it not been drummed into their heads that it was impossible the whole time they were children.

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:48 am

What is your point to discuss? I do not see any correlation between your bible verse and your Google search.

Tunnelcat · Post by **Tunnelcat** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:52 am

He's trying to link either alien intervention or intelligent design to our genome. I'm not dissuaded from the idea yet, nothing's impossible, but it's still a stretch.

flip, you think some of those extra genes are from viruses? Those little buggers are changing our genome all the time and leaving a mess in our code. Even natural radiation and mutation results in old broken sections of information long since unused and thus unable to code for anything useful.

http://www.livescience.com/18518-humans ... genes.html

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:47 am

flip is trying to say those unknown genes are there because of magic sky man, and magic sky man left us a hint.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:50 am

What I'm saying is, there are 223 genes not found anywhere else in nature, and the best guess we have scientifically right now is a side insertion from bacteria, which most scientists agree is very unlikely. At any rate, it's a disruption in normal evolution. I say we have angel blood in us, a great perversion of man.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:19 am

The sixth link from that google search you linked to is from a white-supremacist forum.

Only the first one refers to an actual scientific study that address your assertion, the third one is a paper on detection of genetic material, and it just goes down from there.

You can't expect people to accept concepts simply because of novelty, you need to put some effort into it.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:34 am

Uhm, no, I only linked to Google, if you care, check it out, if you don't, don't.

fliptw · Post by **fliptw** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:16 pm

flip wrote:Uhm, no, I only linked to Google, if you care, check it out, if you don't, don't.

So you do want others do the thinking for you.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:18 pm

Aside from that, the first paper is saying that attributing the side insertion to bacteria was a huge mistake and gonna be real hard to change first impressions. It deserves further investigation

EDIT: Calm down dude.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:21 pm

I'm gonna lose respect for your integrity if your gonna try and paint me a white supremist or non-thinker, just because you have no answer.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:30 pm

flip wrote: I think people would have a much easier time accepting these things had it not been drummed into their heads that it was impossible the whole time they were children.

Exactly, like using facts to build theories rather than having faith drummed into them.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:41 pm

"When a wise man has an argument with a foolish one, the foolish man just laughs or rages."

What has that to do with 223 unknown genes Isaac? and you just made my point.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:36 pm

flip wrote: At any rate, it's a disruption in normal evolution. I say we have angel blood in us, a great perversion of man.

...

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:17 pm

So sad for you and your conditioning. I myself, would have treated you just as i have my own children. let you find out for yourself. It's a good test

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:34 pm

Another problem with linking to google search results is that different people will get different results when they follow your link.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:01 pm

People need religion. And it's what lead to lots of innovation in architecture. If you let religion lead you, then it's good. If it strengthens you, then it's good.

But mixing scientific text with religious text only produces science fiction.

Telling me I'm mentally conditioned is unfair. If I don't see the proof in religious text, it has nothing to do with my faith, because faith requires no proof. Needing proof for any religion is hypocritical, because it forces you to make this comparison...

223 unknown genes have nothing to do with Mr. Tickles.

Pandora · Post by **Pandora** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:04 pm

flip wrote:I say we have angel blood in us, a great perversion of man.

aha, a believer in the nephilim!

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:33 pm

I believe in Nephilim-class bombers from FreeSpace. Those things hurt.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:43 pm

C'mon you genetic experts, you know as well as I do what this means. Quit scoffing , mocking and attacking my personal beliefs and give a viable alternative. Bacteria looks like it's losing ground

EDIT: Didn't realize that Jeff. Thanks.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:11 pm

You ignore my post... I won't reply to you again.

flip wrote:give a viable alternative.

That's my point. They're not alternatives. They're not suppose to be...

Done with this thread.

flip · Post by **flip** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:46 pm

Heh, look Isaac, that's your perojative. I'm not shoving anything down your throat. I say look, here's more evidence of what I believe, simple as that. There is no explanation at all yet, just evidence of 223 unknown genes. Your not curious at all?

vision · Post by **vision** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:08 pm

flip wrote:Your not curious at all?

I'm curious about 223 genes, but I'm not about to declare the answer for their existence is God. I'll apply science, which is the thing that led us to the discovery of genes in the first place. You wouldn't know about them from the bible.

The end.

Top Gun · Post by **Top Gun** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:12 pm

Stop. taking. Genesis. literally. it's. not. meant. as. a. literal. historical. document. you're. doing. it. wrong. aaaaargh.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:35 am

haven't I read this thread before?? Oh, and great, great post, Issac, with the puzzle analogy! Flip, merely because we have a couple hundred genes that THUS FAR have not been found elsewhere is proof of nothing, except that we haven't mapped out the genetic code of both existant and extinct species.
Where God or Angel Blood(isn't that a Charley Sheen idea...no, that was Tiger Blood) comes in at anything deeper than a fairy-tale level eludes me.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:45 am

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/H ... home.shtml

Don't be so sure TG. In fact, I don't know how you could be.

EDIT: You know I have never told anyone here, the whole time I've been here to believe the way i do, or point out how foolish and ignorant i think it is to not believe in a God. Arrogance.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:10 am

Flip, one problem is that it's not clear what you're asking people to accept.

Are you asking them to "accept that the unknown genes are due to angel/human mixing"?

If so, you're not going to get many takers, simply because it requires that people already believe that angels exist and that angels and humans could reproduce.

Are you asking them to "accept that it's a possibility"?

You might get a few who admit it's possible, but then you have another problem: Your hypothesis is completely un-provable/disprovable. There's no way to even begin to approach it with science, which is what you seem to be trying to ask for.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:15 pm

I'm not asking people to accept anything. I've shown things that are not getting much publicity. Like mitochodrial eve/chromosomal adam, how evolution has not really been slow and gradual but marked with many catastrophic events, how we actually produce photons, obviously some type of energy, and now, even after 10 years, we have yet to identify these 223 genes anywhere else.

To me, it just keeps re-enforcing my faith in God's word, because it all fits in there. I'm just exposing others to it, and fairly gently at that. Now, I'm not sure of the power of recollection others possess, but I'm not gonna go and outline all of this again here in this thread. It's all on the DBB. I'm just exposing others, but I have never belittled anyone for what I feel is outright willful ignorance.

vision · Post by **vision** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:04 pm

flip wrote:I'm not asking people to accept anything. I've shown things that are not getting much publicity.

If you want to generate publicity on a matter of science, that can be solved by science, then you should be promoting this story where scientists and biology students are, not a video game forum. Thanks for bringing this mystery to my attention, it reinforces my interest in science.

flip wrote:To me, it just keeps re-enforcing my faith in God's word, because it all fits in there.

And when we eventually know the answers the mysteries above would that damage your faith in God? No. It's not even worth talking about. You will believe anything you want, and lacking any sort of decent argument you'll never convince anyone else to believe what you do (unless they are easily fooled).

flip wrote:I'm just exposing others, but I have never belittled anyone for what I feel is outright willful ignorance.

But then you go and insult everyone for the second time in this thread. I read that as "if you don't believe in God, and don't agree with me, you are foolish, ignorant and arrogant.

flip wrote:EDIT: You know I have never told anyone here, the whole time I've been here to believe the way i do, or point out how foolish and ignorant i think it is to not believe in a God. Arrogance.

You are definitely no angel with the passive/aggressive crap and you are far from persuasive. Try again.

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:25 pm

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:13 pm

Let's just put it this way Vision, and I've lost interest in online discussions, i've noticed in real life it is alot harder to argue against. In the 6-7 years I've been here, I've said that "once." The majority of you take every opportunity to do so, that's willful ignorance in my mind too, There's the second and last one

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:48 pm

Flip, this summarizes why most people are frustrated by your arguments better than I could:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:49 pm

Flip, you are asking us to believe that a single bible passage explains the "223 unknown genes".

now it's up to you to prove that there is a correlation.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:18 pm

Why oh why?

, No, I'm not asking you to believe anything, I'm just telling what I believe. There is so much going on i wouldn't even begin to try and write it all down. It fits in with my belief system is true, but i am not unreasonable either

.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Lol, I feel like I got OCD, bi-polar and a touch of autism all going on at the same time. Drives me a little nutty sometimes when others don't see it like me. Whatever, I'm going to bed. No weed for 6 days now and my back is burning like hell, but even a 40 or 2 puts me in overdrive. I'm going to bed

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:33 pm

This thread:

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:21 pm

bull★■◆●, I'm the most loving tolerant and understanding person I know.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:21 pm

Aside from that, if it's true, science will have to stand with it, and so far it does.

EDIT: so far all of your arguments are so.................................................................

Isaac · Post by **Isaac** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:35 pm

What I'm trying to communicate is this,

Science is suppose to be questioned by all that use it. Religion is not suppose to be questioned, because questioning it means questioning your faith. One is a stress filled tedious method used to understand the world better. The other for making us better people. Even if nothing in the bible is true, it still should not lose any of its meaning or effectiveness. Accept evolution and God, but not in the same way.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:41 pm

Speak for yourself. My reasoning is sound, with evidence to back it up. If your position was sound, you would have shamed me.

EDIT: I accept evolution and every piece of science that i find, no matter where it leads me.

roid · Post by **roid** » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:33 pm

I think i've got the context, only took me less than an hour this time:

- Back in 2001, a study published in Nature journal claimed that 223 genes in the human genome were bacterial in origin (not "unknown").
- Still 2001, some guy called Z. Sitchin wrote this http://www.sitchin.com/adam.htm claiming it to support his long held belief in aliens (dunno about the bible tho).
- Still 2001, the original claim that was published in Nature was brought into question by another subsequent study. http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articl ... sfer.shtml
- 2012, Flip (inspired by Sitchin's 2001 claim) posts this thread, but no-one is entirely sure what flip's point even is.

At the ripe age of 90, Sitchin died in 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin
He seems like a lovable wacko. These theories can be a lot of fun when in relaxed likeminded company, a bunch of bored skeptics ready to suspend disbelief for a bit of play, sure.