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 Post subject: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:44 am 
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Recently I decided that I really don't like how Rebirth handles explosions and missile impact, they're just ugly. So I was thinking of switching back to oldschool D2X for a while and see how it plays. Could someone link me to an installer of a stable version of it? I haven't been able to find a good download.

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:55 am 
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You mean D2XL?
http://www.descent2.de/

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:20 am 
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No I think he's meaning the original project that Rebirth and XL were both based on.
I haven't played it but from what I've seen video-wise it handles the explosions and impacts the same way as Rebirth Xfing. Plus it's really old... I think it was written in the Windows 98 days? No guarantee it could even run on a modern OS.

I have no idea where to get it, but I'd really say your best bet is either Dosbox or D2X-XL. Explosions are one of the reasons I prefer XL over Rebirth.

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:32 am 
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This one?
https://icculus.org/d2x/

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:19 am 
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Yeah, that's where I looked. But the version I was able to download didn't work properly, the pitching controls were stunted just as if I were playing the original exe with no source port at all.

So maybe I'll pass after all. But the explosions actually were like in the original.

As for the explosions and missile impact animations which get cut off if the missile hits a wall at an angle (real ugly), zico said something about being able to compile Rebirth using a software renderer, and that would restore the original look. Any idea how to do this? I'm no programmer sadly :(

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:32 am 
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Sadly, neither am I. I hate programming with a passion. I had to do some for my college course but I hated every bit of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:36 pm 
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I found another way. Found a tutorial on YouTube as to how to install a DosBox version of Descent2. I did it. After that all you need to do is to set up DropBox autoexec options and you can play D2 just like if it was Rebirth. Updating the executable to version 1.2 and then I'll add on Vertigo. If custom content and missions and everything else works fine, I might actually ditch Rebirth, lol

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Also, how to make the Descent 1 executable see custom missions? I can't seem to get it to work for some reason.

EDIT: Figured it out. Since there's no "Missions" folder, you just put the files into the game's folder. No biggie! Vignettes work fine with vanilla, indeed they do!

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:35 am 
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Xfing wrote:
As for the explosions and missile impact animations which get cut off if the missile hits a wall at an angle (real ugly), zico said something about being able to compile Rebirth using a software renderer, and that would restore the original look. Any idea how to do this? I'm no programmer sadly :(

Oh, yep. That's OpenGL depth-buffering to the "rescue". It eliminates the draw-order glitches that sometimes occurred with certain types of geometry (especially complex stuff), or robots built with Polytron for that matter, but is apparently being applied to sprites as well, even when it isn't actually appropriate.


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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:05 pm 
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Sirius wrote:
Xfing wrote:
As for the explosions and missile impact animations which get cut off if the missile hits a wall at an angle (real ugly), zico said something about being able to compile Rebirth using a software renderer, and that would restore the original look. Any idea how to do this? I'm no programmer sadly :(

Oh, yep. That's OpenGL depth-buffering to the "rescue". It eliminates the draw-order glitches that sometimes occurred with certain types of geometry (especially complex stuff), or robots built with Polytron for that matter, but is apparently being applied to sprites as well, even when it isn't actually appropriate.


Yeah. Robot explosions be damned, since zico was quite insistent on keeping them, but seeing a Mega Missile explosion sprite get cut off at an angle looks like a poorly implemented poor idea :P

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:43 am 
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I'd probably need to study more about the OpenGL API to be sure, but it occurs to me that this could be quite difficult to get right. You do want most sprites to be clipped if they're actually partially behind a corner (think about weapon powerups in particular), just not by the geometry of the segment they're in. I know how to tell, computationally, how this may have occurred, but I'm not sure if OpenGL has a simple way to stop it. You could definitely stop it if you bring back the original Descent draw-order algorithm, but that would also mean bringing back its bugs.


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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:30 am 
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Sirius wrote:
I'd probably need to study more about the OpenGL API to be sure, but it occurs to me that this could be quite difficult to get right. You do want most sprites to be clipped if they're actually partially behind a corner (think about weapon powerups in particular), just not by the geometry of the segment they're in. I know how to tell, computationally, how this may have occurred, but I'm not sure if OpenGL has a simple way to stop it. You could definitely stop it if you bring back the original Descent draw-order algorithm, but that would also mean bringing back its bugs.


Well yeah, it's not like it was perfect. There were some occasional mismatches and weird cutoffs occurring as well, especially with Megas. But still, better than what's there now :P

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:58 am 
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Xfing wrote:
Also, how to make the Descent 1 executable see custom missions? I can't seem to get it to work for some reason.

EDIT: Figured it out. Since there's no "Missions" folder, you just put the files into the game's folder. No biggie! Vignettes work fine with vanilla, indeed they do!


That was the plan. Vignettes was meant to be workable for all versions of Descent!


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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:11 am 
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DarkFlameWolf wrote:
Xfing wrote:
Also, how to make the Descent 1 executable see custom missions? I can't seem to get it to work for some reason.

EDIT: Figured it out. Since there's no "Missions" folder, you just put the files into the game's folder. No biggie! Vignettes work fine with vanilla, indeed they do!


That was the plan. Vignettes was meant to be workable for all versions of Descent!


Well then, you might need a revision actually, since vanilla won't launch level 8. It freezes perpetually on the "Prepare for Descent" screen. Not sure about any subsequent levels though.

EDIT: Level 9 loads fine, so it must be something with 8 that the executable doesn't like.

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:13 am 
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Interesting. Can anyone else confirm this and can either Darkhorse or Sirius see something in the level I cannot in terms of what could be causing the crash? I think it might be the music chosen actually rather than anything to do with the level itself. So honestly, look into the hog file and remove the offending midi/hmp/hmq files for level 8 and I think you might be golden here.


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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:11 am 
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DarkFlameWolf wrote:
Interesting. Can anyone else confirm this and can either Darkhorse or Sirius see something in the level I cannot in terms of what could be causing the crash? I think it might be the music chosen actually rather than anything to do with the level itself. So honestly, look into the hog file and remove the offending midi/hmp/hmq files for level 8 and I think you might be golden here.


Not sure where to look for Dosbox logs to be honest, I don't see any in the directory where I've got the game. Also, like I said it's not really a crash - it's just that the game freezes on the "Prepare for Descent" screen, so no error log is probably even produced.

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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Hog... as in, .HOG. As far as I recall the original game didn't even produce logs.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a music issue, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Stable version of D2X please?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:27 am 
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Sirius wrote:
Hog... as in, .HOG. As far as I recall the original game didn't even produce logs.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a music issue, though.


I just remembered something that makes me think it most likely is - Rebirth plays regular D1L8 music for mission 8 of Vignettes. I think vanilla Descent just isn't smart enough to manage such a bypass and freezes trying to find the music instead.

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