A Few Questions about Textures

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TSXMike
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A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:06 pm

Hello everybody!

First, I had to make a new username because I forgot my password, and the email I used to create the account was no longer usable so I couldn't reset it! I used to be Mike8887123 (no problem because 8887123 was pretty meaningless). I am still working on my levels and enjoying it. Progress is slow, and there is a lot of work.

Question:
I'm using DLE 1.11.90, and I want to edit some screens (animated textures) with the pixil editor (if you click "edit" under the texture tab). The problem is that I can't find all of the frames for the screen. I tried checking "show frames," but it only works for door textures. It only shows me the first frame for all non-door animated textures (such as screens, wall strips, red reactor stuff, matcen veins, switch panels, etc). How do I edit all frames for these non-door textures?

Thanks guys
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:02 pm

Anybody?

Here's another question I want to put out there:

Experimenting around, I took a TEW texture (not the whole POG file) and loaded it into my own level. The way I did this was by opening the TEW level in DLE, opening the pixel/texture editor, clicking "save", and then loading that texture into my own level replacing an unused texture slot. This resulted in a new texture taking the spot of another in my level.

My question is do I have to use the same PIG file the TEW level uses?

Thanks!
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Sirius » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:34 am

TSXMike wrote:I'm using DLE 1.11.90, and I want to edit some screens (animated textures) with the pixil editor (if you click "edit" under the texture tab). The problem is that I can't find all of the frames for the screen. I tried checking "show frames," but it only works for door textures. It only shows me the first frame for all non-door animated textures (such as screens, wall strips, red reactor stuff, matcen veins, switch panels, etc). How do I edit all frames for these non-door textures?
Yeah, this is exactly the problem I wrote the texture editor in 1.12.* to solve. I would recommend using that unless you have a strong need not to.
TSXMike wrote:My question is do I have to use the same PIG file the TEW level uses?
It's preferable, but not required. Using the same PIG file (palette, to be precise) means the texture appears the same as it did in that level. If you're using a different PIG, I believe DLE will recolor the texture to use the closest colors it can find in the different PIG's palette. It might look OK but there will usually be some level of quality loss.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:15 pm

Got it! Thanks Sirius

Its good to know the frames thing is just a version issue.

I've been trying to get 1.12, but I can't seem to download it right now (from here: http://www.descent2.de/files/dle-1.12.27.7z). When I right click, I don't see the 'save target as' selection. I'll try when I get home on my good computer.

Thanks much!
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Sirius » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:03 am

Errr... that's a mistake on the website, apparently. Try http://www.descent2.de/files/dle-1.12.28.7z
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:34 pm

Got it! I am editing all slides now, THANKS

Always a great help!
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:54 pm

Hey there,

I almost got it to work except my modified animated texture is not animated after being exported/imported to another level. Then I realized I have to upload each frame one by one. So how do I add frames to the list for a non-animated texture that is being replaced? Or can I only add animated textures to slots that are already animated textures? Know what I mean?

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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Sirius » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:55 am

If your question is what I think it is - the number of frames in an animated texture is governed by... descent2.ham I think. You can't add or remove them with a .POG (which is what DLE is working with) - only replace the frames that already exist. So you will probably need to look for a texture with the same number of frames as your custom texture, and use that in your level.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Xfing » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:42 am

Sirius wrote:If your question is what I think it is - the number of frames in an animated texture is governed by... descent2.ham I think. You can't add or remove them with a .POG (which is what DLE is working with) - only replace the frames that already exist. So you will probably need to look for a texture with the same number of frames as your custom texture, and use that in your level.
That is correct. There is no way to manipulate the number of frames of textures. Even HAXMed32, a tool for editing descent2.ham (after some tweaks no less) doesn't let you do quite as much, if I remember correctly. I remember making a custom pog meant to be reminescent of Descent 1 - replacing all of D2's monitors with ones from D1 required a lot of forethought, since the frame count practically never matched perfectly. So I used monitors that either contained a multiple of the frames of the D1 one and just duplicated certain frames, or truncated some frames I thought weren't as important in other ones.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:00 pm

Thanks you guys, that clears it up.

So this just means I'll have to figure what can be done with each particular level of mine. I guess as long as I'm not going to go pog wild with textures, then I should be okay. My idea - I wanted to have blue, yellow, and red reactor arrows (the wall strips) to put in the areas in which you will find those keys. And in another level, I want to do the same with the green wall strip with the fluttery stuff. Not a huge functional part of the level, but just aesthetics and uniqueness.

Another idea: I have white fatty jr's in my one system, so I wanted to modify the screens that show red fatty in those levels to render a white fatty instead of a red one. And I do have brown D1 spiders that spawn brown mini-spiders in my 1st system. If I could make the screens reflect my robot mods per system, then it would make the player stop and think for a second.

I know how to do it now! My mission set will probably take me another 5 years, but its comin!

Fun stuff! Thanks guys for being descent fanatics.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:32 pm

Hey, I have 2 questions after doing some editing...

1) I used the white "transparent" at the bottom left in the pixel editor, and its still not transparent when played. How do I make something transparent? I accidentally painted over a transparent part, and couldn't undo.

2) Is there software that changes all pixels to another if you specify which color to change which color to? This would avoid editing by hand.

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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Sirius » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:57 am

1. Just those pixels aren't transparent, or the whole texture?

2. Image/photo editing software will do this... the most famous one is Photoshop, but it's probably still expensive. The most powerful free alternative is probably GIMP, though its interface is challenging to learn (seems to be a common problem with FOSS...). Paint.NET is also popular but I haven't personally used it and can't vouch for how well it handles palettes/indexed color images.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by LightWolf » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:22 pm

If you have software to convert to 256-color bitmaps, Game Maker's sprite editor is quite powerful. IIRC it only saves PNGs though.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Xfing » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:09 pm

Yeah, only editing the texture in indexed color mode using the same 256 color palette that the PIG you're making the level in is using will do you any good. Otherwise you're going to get a distorted texture upon import. Though I dunno, maybe doing it in RGB will do too, but any color you use that's not in the palette will use the closest approximation.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Okay,

Sirius, the answer to #1 is only the pixels are not transparent - not the whole frame. I just reverted the texture and redid it. Its just that it may help me in the future to know how if I accidentally paint over transparency again and can't undo it.

What is indexed color mode?
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Xfing » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:49 pm

TSXMike wrote:
What is indexed color mode?
It's a color rendering mode whereby a file uses its own palette of colors, usually 255 colors. The palette can differ from file to file, it can even be generated based on the original RGB image to make the image in indexed mode look the closest possible to the original.

The PCX files used in Descent use such a mode, as Descent refuses to load files in RGB color mode.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Sirius » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:16 am

OK, if it's individual pixels it's not the transparency flag... it must just be using the wrong color... :?
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Xfing » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:02 am

Sirius wrote:OK, if it's individual pixels it's not the transparency flag... it must just be using the wrong color... :?
That's exactly right. You always need to make sure that the palette for your PCX file has room for the traditional green briefing text color, otherwise the closest approximation will be used. The color is 00ff00, if memory serves.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:41 pm

One question I just ran into-- Is it possible to change the blowing and blown textures for screens? Say I replace one screen texture with another that is differently shaped. When I blow it out, the blown out texture looks like the old screen still. The sound is also an issue - after replacing a blow-outable texture with another, the sound made when blowing it out will still be the old texture. I'm sure you guys know what I mean. Is this editable?

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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by TSXMike » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:33 pm

Oh wait, I get it.. I would have to change the blowing/blown textures separately so that they all match.
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Re: A Few Questions about Textures

Post by Xfing » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:38 pm

TSXMike wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:33 pm
Oh wait, I get it.. I would have to change the blowing/blown textures separately so that they all match.
That's what I did for "template" POG files for D1-style mines, replaced all the d2 monitors frame by frame with their D1 counterparts. Of course the number of frames dind't always match, so I had to either skip or duplicate some frames, same of course goes for the blown and exit sequence versions.
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