Jeff250 wrote:Your argument would only seem to apply to states where there is any competition in the first place.
I think it applies everywhere, but in certain places the effects are just more apparent.
Suppose that Biden does have the wherewithal to pick Warren--would you credit his choice of Warren over a moderate due to your willingness to vote for any Democrat no matter what they say or do?
Not at all. Quite the opposite, probably. I'm certainly not saying "vote blue no matter who" is any way to leverage my preferred choice of VP into existence on the Biden ticket.
I just don't think losing elections, especially this one, is the best way to promote change. If we're talking some longer term project, that's one thing. But right here and now, there's no option for me.
Right now, there's only one choice Biden could make that would make me NOT vote Democratic and that is if he chose Hillary Clinton for veep. I didn't vote for the Dem ticket in 2016 because of her and voted third party. I'm not pleased the Democratic Party is still stuck in the past with their old, party-line, white guy choices and couldn't manage to choose a younger more adventuresome idea-driven candidate just to shake things up and generate excitement to get out the younger vote. He's nothing but an old Dem retread where the tread is starting to fall off. In fact, when he came to Oregon, guess who he schmoozed with looking for support? People in the rich Dunthorpe neighborhood of Portland, which is NOT a cross section of the party. Biden's only saving grace would be if he chose Warren. Then he'd probably pick up a few Sander's supporters as a result. But I'm still going to have to hold my nose to vote for him in the fall. We here in Oregon haven't even had our primary yet either, so I had no say in who's been picked as the Dem candidate. I'm kind of sick of the fact that a few states with early primaries can stick ALL of us with crappy candidates. The system sucks.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote:Right now, there's only one choice Biden could make that would make me NOT vote Democratic and that is if he chose Hillary Clinton for veep.
Christ, even as a thought experiment, this hurts my head. I can't even imagine the type of thinking that would go into a VP choice like that. Does it go like: how can we compliment the worst, most low energy candidate in the field? I know! Lets bring back the candidate that lost last time, the single most despised candidate we've ever run!
The right wing media is practically slavering at the prospect and even a few celebrities like Whoopi Goldberg and James Woods have joined the chorus. Bird brains.
The Kiss of death. Even Tara Reade thinks so. Remember, Hillary enabled her sexual predator hubby, Bill, so I guess Hillary and Biden are good bedfellows. In fact, Biden still can't keep his wandering hands from grabbing a married woman and pulling her close from the looks of that photo. In fact, Hillary looks she's trying to push away.
Biden needs to resign from the campaign, plain and simple. He's damaged goods now. There are a whole slew of other good candidates the Dems could choose from instead of this man. I'm to the point I don't want to vote for the pervert.
Actually, no I won't. Giving Biden my vote would make me a hypocrite. I can't in all conscience give tacit approval to a man accused of the same thing I've been complaining about for years concerning the leaders currently in office from the other party. What now galls me is all these "Me Too" women supporting Biden because they "believe" his denials. But then they have a collective brain fart about similar denials put forth by Trump and crew. Their rational is that men are all guilty, the women victims are always speaking the truth and how dare those women be besmerched when they tell their stories, EXCEPT FOR BIDEN. Are these women that damn stupid? Why is Biden any different from all the other powerful men accused of sexual impropriety? He gets a pass because he's a Dem? No, Biden ain't worth it, especially since I don't really want him as the Dem candidate anyway. The party better wake before Trump wins re-election.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:56 pmGiving Biden my vote would make me a hypocrite.
No it wouldn't. Voting to lessen the power of the Republican Party is a win for women's rights and a step in the right direction, no matter how small and slow those steps are. Biden is the Democratic presidential candidate because the majority of people who support him do not feel as strongly about women's rights are you or I. That is a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. The Democratic party is still on the right side of history when it comes to women's issues, so there really shouldn't be a conflict with you if supporting women is your goal.
I don't know. They're both old white guy dumb rapists. Biden can't remember what he was saying half way through a sentence like his old brain isn't quite in gear and Trump uses superlatives and repetition out of a shear lack of both language skills and intelligence to fill his vacuous sentences. I guess I'd have to say that Biden is the Douche and Trump is the Turd Sandwich. At least you feel cleansed after using a douche. Eating a turd sandwich pretty much makes you vomit uncontrollably until your insides explode.
Vander, I would only hope that the Dem Party comes to it's senses because it really pains me to have to choose between 2 sexual predators as our candidates for president. Biden is now tainted and Trump will have a field day, even though he's just as bad, if not worse. Trump is the master at being a stupid TV bully and Biden will wither under the assault because his former ace card of running on a platform of protecting women is now null and void. There are other highly qualified candidates who ran in the primary, so why can't one of those get picked during the convention? However, if Biden and the Party decide to be closed-minded and stay the course through to the bitter end, I guess the only reason I wouldn't vote for him was if he chose Hillary as veep. Voting for her be be equivalent of giving myself a strychnine enema. Hopefully he will choose Warren and at the very least pick up the Progressive vote.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Warren's a progressive in name only, though. Picking her wouldn't do much to pick up Bernie's supporters, not that much else would seeing how the party fucked him over yet again.
If he was younger, he might have had a better chance, but I think his recent heart attack blew his chances. I would have voted for him just to make conservatives squirm at the thought of having a Democratic Socialist as pres. The conservative conniptions would've been wild entertainment. But I think he was going up against the Dem Party machinery who did NOT want him no matter what the price, even if that price was to pick yet another old white guy sexual predator to run against the Trump old white guy sexual predator. Short sighted idiots.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote:Biden is now tainted and Trump will have a field day
For me, Biden was already tainted. I didn't want him to be the nominee and still don't. You won't find me defending him in any way, but I will vote for him over Trump if that is the choice come November. I hope it isn't.
Top Gun wrote:Warren's a progressive in name only, though.
I disagree. I think she's basically a late bloomer, so her leftist narrative is a bit malformed and not as comprehensive. She was basically a financial law nerd, and her progressivism sprang from the injustices she saw there in a more narrow and focused fashion. I do believe she sees the correct power imbalances, and has decent ideas to address them. Name other national Dems pushing things like co-determination, more liberal use of anti-trust, wealth tax, postal banking, etc. Those are big transformational things that can shift real power in the right direction.
I do think she's kind of clumsy in the moves she makes, though. She fumbles at movement building and solidarity. I didn't see any downside for her to endorse Sanders, only upside. But I do think she ultimately had more crossover appeal than Sanders had, especially in the all important media. I think if Sanders had dropped out and endorsed Warren after his heart attack, she would've done better than he would've if she dropped out and endorsed him.
Adding Warren to the ticket probably won't pull in many Bernie or Bust voters. But it could motivate some tepid Biden voters to do more than just unenthusiastically vote.
Welp, I just filled out my primary ballot. I couldn't stomach giving Biden my vote right now, so since Warren was still on the ballot even though she dropped out, she got my vote. Gawd I hope he's not the Dem choice we're stuck with come November.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 12:24 pm
Welp, I just filled out my primary ballot. I couldn't stomach giving Biden my vote right now, so since Warren was still on the ballot even though she dropped out, she got my vote. Gawd I hope he's not the Dem choice we're stuck with come November.
I wouldn't worry. In my experience, people tend to only become more polarized as we get closer to the election. Although you don't have it in your conscience to vote for Biden now, we still have six months to change your conscience.
Right now, it a choice between 2 bald-faced liars AND unabashed rapists. Dear God, Biden has to drop out for the sake of the party. I just can't stomach voting for him come November. On that note, California just OK'd Vote-by-Mail this year. I wonder how that's going to work out for Oregon and California when the Republicans fail to support the Post Office this summer?
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 10:35 amDear God, Biden has to drop out for the sake of the party.
The Party has always been garbage. The fact you think otherwise means their brainwashing has been successful. They are simply the lesser of two evils, though in this case they are FAR less evil, in general, even with a joke like Joe Biden as their front man.
Oh, I know the party is garbage. It has been for a long time. That's why we got Trump last time around, even though I voted for a different Dem in an attempt to keep Hillary out. Now that our primary is over and I've had my say with Warren, I'm going to re-register as an Independent again just to get off their damn mailing list. But if the Dems stick with Biden to the bitter end, it shows me they're unwilling to accept change for their own salvation, are almost as corrupt as the Republicans and they're probably going to get a good drubbing in 2020. The Republicans have NO morals or shame anymore and are already playing dirty with Deep Fake Trump campaign ads to bolster a president who has thoroughly botched our nation's response to the world pandemic. The nation and the people don't matter to them, only selling their souls to get what they want in 2020. We can't even get any sane Republican posters to defend their party's actions here, probably because they're embarrassed out of their skulls.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:16 am
Here's who BIden (ick) needs to pick as veep in order to win. She's one hard-as-nails smart cookie who'll get the votes to kick Trump out of office.
Still haven't heard one peep on who he's gonna pick. I thought by June but... Odds are it will be an African American woman and I think Keisha could hold her own in Washington. She has tested positive with Covid, but asymptomatic fortunately and now maybe immune.
Meanwhile, on the important question if Trump will honor the results of the November election, we got a "We'll see..." during the recent Chris Wallace interview. I like Biden's comeback, although if I said it, I would've been far more blunt with far less tact.
Joe Biden wrote:“I promise you, I’m absolutely convinced they will escort him from the White House with great dispatch...”
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
What now, is that all eyes are on Republicans as they steal as much wealth as possible while trying their hardest to cheat the election. They are so brazenly corrupt that the only chance they have to keep the gravy train going is to go full-on authoritarian and break whatever is left of American Democracy.
I have hope. The Republican messaging is in shambles. Even with their massive media influence (and Russian meddling) they can't seem to make anything stick on Joe Biden. Republicans really shot their load all over Hillary Clinton, and now they have nothing left for this election. Lately, the only propaganda that seems to gain any traction with the Republican base is racism. BLM has been a boon for the propagandists, but it's all too general and vague. So, expect the following:
* Multiculturalism = Bad
* Harris is from that multicultural hell-hole California
* Biden and Harris have promoted racist policies
* Democrats are the real racists, not Republicans
* BLM = AntiFa = Whatever Red Scare Boogeyman you want this week
So, basically racism. That's all they have left. The pandemic is such a colossal disaster it's only going to drag Republicans down (because this ★■◆● ain't going away any time soon, folks). There is no sign the economy will recover before November. They have nothing to work with, so they only thing they can do is obstruct and cheat the election and hope they somehow come out on top.
Most people who oppose BLM oppose anarchist and Marxist stuff that has been attached to it, not the idea of black lives mattering. Kinda similar to MAGA - people who oppose it oppose the white supremist stuff that has been attached to it, not the idea of America being great. It's the attached stuff people generally oppose, not the face-value idea of the statement. I find it surprising how few people understand this. (Though I don't doubt there are actual racists or anti-Americans out there, however they aren't the majority.)
On a similar note, I saw a post saying there were two BLMs - the anarcho-Marxist version everyone hates and the version the peaceful protesters follow and everyone loves.
Kinda funny that both sides say the other is trying to cheat at the election, especially with mail in ballots - Doing it means that Democrats commit fraud and, if they still lose, tie up the system until Pelosi messes things up, while not doing it means that only Republicans show up and give Trump an undeserved landslide while everyone else tries to not kill people with Covid. (I personally think the absentee system is the best middle ground - you don't have to be there in person, but it is a little harder to cheat)
Something worth considering - I would not be surprised if Biden were quickly declared unfit for the presidency under the 25th amendment, putting Harris in charge. If you plan to vote Biden and you're fine with 4-ish years of Harris in charge, then cast your vote for Biden. If not, then consider whether it's worth it.
Unless you're in the 2/3 of America where the vote for president doesn't actually mean anything since the electorate is not bound to the popular vote. Then you don't need to worry as much about whether or not he'll be in office in six months.
Oh, if you wanna talk racism, remember that if you're black and don't vote Biden, then "you ain't black". And the ad blaming China for Corona after the Democrats made it clear that blaming China was racist. Biden isn't exactly the champion of equality people want him to be. Do you really wanna vote for the guy accused of trying to out-Trump Trump?
Whatever I just said, I hope you understood it correctly. Understood what I meant, I mean.
#AllLivesMatter
LightWolf wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:18 am...Kinda funny that both sides say the other is trying to cheat at the election, especially with mail in ballots - Doing it means that Democrats commit fraud and, if they still lose, tie up the system until Pelosi messes things up, while not doing it means that only Republicans show up and give Trump an undeserved landslide while everyone else tries to not kill people with Covid. (I personally think the absentee system is the best middle ground - you don't have to be there in person, but it is a little harder to cheat)
Something worth considering - I would not be surprised if Biden were quickly declared unfit for the presidency under the 25th amendment, putting Harris in charge. If you plan to vote Biden and you're fine with 4-ish years of Harris in charge, then cast your vote for Biden. If not, then consider whether it's worth it.
Unless you're in the 2/3 of America where the vote for president doesn't actually mean anything since the electorate is not bound to the popular vote. Then you don't need to worry as much about whether or not he'll be in office in six months.
Funny how we here in Oregon have been voting by mail for over 2 DECADES with nary any voter fraud. Trump himself votes by mail using an absentee ballot and claims Florida's vote by mail setup is OK. Now he's got his new Postmaster General lackey, in office for 2 months, deliberately screwing up the Post Office just to slow things down in preparation for an election during a pandemic he so miserably screwed up the response to, it's downright criminal. Trump even admits it. The Postmaster General is also removing expensive postal mail sorting equipment from facilities all over the country to really slow things down. Mail is now being left on the floor because they can't handle it. I've heard rumors that the expensive machines are even being junked or destroyed. They certainly can't afford to store it. There go your expensive tax dollars down the drain and all your bills and important mail being late or lost now. I'll probably have to go all paperless now thanks to that bastard. A 200+ year old institution enshrined in the Constitution is now being destroyed for political gain by a man who for all intensive purposes is an infantile nutcase who cares little for our country, only his power, prestige and position.
I like the new term for what is currently afflicting the Republican Party. They are now being infected with a creeping case of mental gonorrhea. I mean, even allowing a candidate who believes in QANON to RUN, and unfortunately win, as a candidate for your party fer cripes sake? Geezus, I wouldn't even ADMIT I was a Republican if I even belonged to the party, which I fortunately don't. Trump is even dredging up Birtherism again with Harris, not to mention the misogyny he's already been crapping out of his pie hole lately. He's making Biden look like a Saint.
As for Harris possibly ending up as president, I'd take her any day over our current authoritarian egomaniac empty-headed foulmouthed narcissist any day. At least she's intelligent and shows tact when she speaks. In fact, I'd take her over Biden, so him being removed for some medical reason after the election would be a BIG positive IMO.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
Fun fact: Hillary Clinton was a witch with force powers. I believe she died recently and was replaced by 2 nephilim clones, one that looks old and one that looks young. I think Bill favors the young one.
Something Biden said that made me happy was declaring "trickle down economics have never worked". Finally a POTUS that is actually willing to attack Reagan's horrible legacy.
Yeah, but deficit spending never works either if the economy stalls. The really big issue is that since trickle down economics still seems to be the economic religion of conservatives, despite NO evidence that it has ever worked, nothing is going to change with these idiots. As we've seen, only the Stock Market and it's investors have been richly rewarded during the pandemic, not the lower middle or lower class. Problem is, the Dems are now courting huge deficit spending as the solution and banking that the economy and higher taxes will grow us out of the debt. However, raise taxes on the rich, what we DO get is trickle down consumer price increases over time because the world's population is still growing and demand continues to rise along with it. The rich and elite aren't stupid and they have the power. They'll get their money back if stuck with higher taxes one way or another, usually through the consumer since they own all the world's large corporations that we peons all buy our products from. Greed is a ★■◆●. Take from the prince and the pauper pays. Don't get me wrong, I think the elite need to pay their fair share. The 1% own and control just way too much of the world for everyone's good. I just don't think what the Dems are currently proposing will be a solution to this problem. You have to remember that a lot of the Dems in Congress themselves are rich elites as well, who certainly don't want to raise their own damn taxes, so they'll find ways to make it LOOK like what they're doing is great for the average American, when in reality it's all magnanimous claptrap. The current tax code is evidence of that. I dare anyone to make sense of the mess. All those weird little "add this" and "subtract this" worksheet instructions only benefit some rich corporate lobbyist or elite butt kisser's request to some Senator(s). The last time the 1040 was one page of paper in recent history was under Reagan, a conservative.
Our current economic situation is tenuous at best right now too. Maybe a dose of deficit spending would help, but somehow I think it's only going to end up being a band aid on a bullet wound. Trump's little tax cuts have plateaued in effectiveness, but the Dems need to realize that massive deficit spending could also backfire on them and the American public in a nasty way. The economic wound from Covid is beginning to fester. Homelessness numbers are now off the charts in the U.S. and the prices of many products are drastically rising (a lot of that due to supply chain shortages, lack of manufacturing adjustments from Covid or weather issues). Prices for electronics, cars (new and used), gasoline, homes, lumber and many food commodities are skyrocketing and now inflation is now starting to rear it's ugly head. With both parties entrenched in their little ancient economic mindsets, we're stuck with a face off and no progress because we're still dealing with this pandemic. With the many nasty Covid variants still running rampant worldwide and vaccination rates falling in the U.S., all because of the holdouts in the U.S. who refuse to ever be vaccinated, we won't reach herd immunity at the required 80% vax rate in our own country. So thanks to those morons, mostly conservatives too, the pandemic isn't over yet. I suggest that we donate all the unused American vaccines to the rest of the world and let all the mostly deluded stupid antivaxxer conservatives get Covid and die. Problem solved, but I digress. So if the Dems think they can spend their way out of this trap and do it going alone, good luck with that because they're about to run into reality that inflation may just ruin their day, the Fed rates be damned. Between the pandemic and now climate change, which conservatives refuse to ever acknowledge like a bunch of elephants mired in the mud at the now perpetually dry water hole, those two issues will certainly throw a monkey wrench into everyone's hopeful rosy economic outlook. Neither party has adapted to the new normal, so they keep returning their old ideas and ways as fixes for our country's problems. Stodgy old fools. So like the dinosaurs they are, they will eventually go extinct and hopefully NOT take us all down with them.
Cat (n.) A bipolar creature which would as soon gouge your eyes out as it would cuddle.
I think Bill favors the young one. 
