Weight liftin, getting in shape, health

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:39 pm

I know it's probably the blind leading the blind here in geekdom, but I just quit smoking pot (for an unknown time, hopefully I can stick to eating) and I find myself weaker than I was in high school and with an extra ten on my stomach. I'm also between girls, so I feel the need to look better and get in shape.

My question is, does anyone know of any decent home workout programs using free weights? I have access to the school gym during the year, but not during the summer. I hike frequently so my legs are in pretty good shape. I know how to cover stomach pretty well, so I'm more concerned about my arms, shoulders, back, and pecs.

I'm not trying to become mr. buff but I would like to at least get in good physical shape. I have a healthy diet already (when I don't smoke pot I don't find myself eating a crapload of junk) but I've heard there are specific times you can eat (I've heard right after a workout, the morning of, which is it?) and specific things you can eat (protein) to help your progress.

If anyone has some thoughts, a link, or even a book they've tried I would be appreciative. No workout videos here though

birdsigh

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:34 pm

Birds, the most important aspect of working out, believe it or not is nutrition. I'd say that nutrition is 80% of your results. The other 20% would be the stimulus you put your body through at the gym.

Eating atleast 4 meals a day would be an excellent start. Making sure your food is "clean" as often as possible. The longer you stay consistent, the more consistent your gains will be. Eating good sources of protein in every meal: chicken breast, turkey breast, fish, filet's, egg whites, etc. Carbs such as sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal. Getting green leafy vegetables throughout the day would be good too (fruit as well). If you'd like more specifis I'm sure I could give you some.

Working out, I'm not a big believer in the whole body workout each day. I'd suggest your break up your workouts into a body split -- 2 days on, 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off. For example, on the first workout: arms -- biceps and triceps. Workout two: legs: squats, leg press, hack squats, leg extensions, leg curls. Workout three: chest and shoulders: bench press, incline bench press, flies, shoulder press, lateral and posterior raises. And day four: Back: lat pull downs, dead lifts, bent over rows, dumbbell rows.

That's the basics for the workout. Since you'd be more or less beginning in the gym, the compound movements would be the most important: bench press, squats, dead lifts. Those would be key in helping.

Of course you can always do a little cardio throughout the week to help you stay lean.

If you'd like some more specifics I can give you some.

Zero! · Post by **Zero!** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:40 pm

i need to get buff! thanks for the nutrition facts.

Vindicator · Post by **Vindicator** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 7:45 pm

I started making myself a big platter of fresh fruits and veggies to munch on at night when I'm using the computer (rather than cookies or chips). Since doing that, I've lost 10 pounds without even trying.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:26 pm

To add to what was said about nutrition: drink plenty of water. Muscle, like the rest of you, is made mostly out of water -- and having adequate water keeps you healthy in other ways, too.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:40 pm

Not to mention that water fills you up and makes you crave food less. One of the tenets of Weight Watchers, I hear, is to drink tons of water whenever you start getting hungry in between meals.

Starken · Post by **Starken** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:27 pm

There's some good workout templates at exrx.net

I'd recommend starting with one the full body workouts lited at http://exrx.net/Lists/WorkoutMenu.html and using the 3 days a week plan. I've had good results with the single set, low rep approach (increase the weight if you can do 10 reps). It also keep the workout time under an hour.

The cool thing about that site is they let you pick from a list of exercises for each muscle group, so you can design your workout for whatever equipment you have access to.

And I second Scratch's comments about nutrition. Eat good protein and carbs often (every three hours if you can). A good multivitamin and meal-replacement shakes can help if you have limited time to prepare and eat those extra meals.

SolidAir · Post by **SolidAir** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:30 am

Hey Brian ...

I've been wanting to be healthy but knew it involved more than just eating right... my friend recommended a book to me called The Truth by Frank Sepe that outlines what you need to do to get in shape. It laid it all out for me and I finally understand what needs to be done to get in shape. He covers nutrition, cardio and weight training in detail, and has different levels for each part so you can find out where you are in the scheme of things.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

I really recommend it. Check out the book description and the reviews.

Good luck

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:50 am

Bri, you should talk to BFDD about this stuff. he's a personal trainer.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:00 am

If you want mass, do 2 sets of 8 on each muscle group. Set your weight so that you can bairly do the last one. Don't jerk your muscles when lifting, unless their is a really hot chick next to you. You can lift more that way, but it doesn't make you stronger and is really bad for you. You want to be smooth and controlled. If your going more for medium body type go with 3 sets of 12, and the same rules for not being able to do the last ones still apply.

I also agree with what Carter says about breakin up the groups. Also, as fern said, bfdd was a personal trainer for some time.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:29 am

I'm working on being a certified trainer as well. There is so much you can do...i didn't want to overwhelm you with information and take up waaaaay too much space on this topic

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 7:44 am

birdseye,
it seems like you want some beef. but i can't say enough about walking... for last 3 months i've been hoofing about 4 miles a day and it's done wonders for my mental and physical. my booty is tight as well as my stomach.

just a useless suggestion.

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:17 am

One of the things I havn't seen mentioned, is that you should use low weights and high reps to start to strengthen your ligaments. The last thing you want to do is overload your bicep and rip it at the elbow.

I took half the weight I was capable of, and did an all-around body routine for three weeks, doing as many reps as possible, and after the third week, I moved to 75% of the weight I could do, and did a set number of reps for two weeks, then moved to as much weight as I could do in 10 reps.

If you want density over bulk, then do about 100% weight for ten reps. it you want loose, but bulging muscles, do 100% weight for 4 reps. I wouldn't recommend that because it tears the hell out of your ligements, and you'll be suffering in 20 years. I know several weight nuts, including my pops, that have all kinds of pain from 'overlifting'. Also, be really careful of your shoulders. Don't lift the weights above eye level, if you are taking dumbbells and lifting them straight out form your body. Something about compressing your shoulder that's not good.

Something that I'm nut sure is accurate, but if you target the same muscle group every day (say 100% for ten reps), your muscles won't have time to fully rebuild and you'll actually lose tone, but gain a whole lot of density, and it will gradually bulk up, but at a much slower pace. can anyone confirm/correct that? I think you can do stomach and forearms every day, however.

I lift every day, but I spread the muscle groups: Monday is triceps, chest, shoulders and (what's the muscle that connects shoulders to neck? Traps?), Tuesday is various back muscles, legs, biceps and forearms. Wednesday and Friday is the same as Monday, Thursday and Saturday is the same as Tuesday. Situps every day. 40 push ups every night before I go to bed, regardless of day.

Two hours after you lift, eat a dumpload of pasta. Your muscles will soak it up like a sponge. Oh yea, and don't eat 1-1/2 hours before or after you lift. All the blood goes to the stomach and starves your muscles. (I'm sure you know this part due to familiarity with the effects of eating and pot)

It's surprising how quick you build..in just a few months. My friends don't even try to pick up my weights, 'cause they can't

They just push them across the floor to get them out of the way.

Jagger · Post by **Jagger** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:31 pm

I'm a firm believer in the graduated reps per set technique. For example, with curls I start at 10 reps, 35 pounds per arm. Next set 8 reps, then 6. If I'm feeling good, I might bump the reps up by 2 per set. Just don't forget uniformity, Birds. Wouldn't want to end up with massive arms with no shoulders.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:36 pm

Testiculese wrote: Dave I swear I'm not trying to pick on you here but some of the information you are trying to pass is old fashioned at best:

One of the things I havn't seen mentioned, is that you should use low weights and high reps to start to strengthen your ligaments. The last thing you want to do is overload your bicep and rip it at the elbow.
That's what warm-ups are for. If you listen to your body and don't try to do too much too soon, this should never be an issue.

If you want density over bulk, then do about 100% weight for ten reps. it you want loose, but bulging muscles, do 100% weight for 4 reps.
Repetitions is all relative. Unless you are a power-lifter, doing 4 reps will only make you stronger.
Recovery (sleep) and proper nutrition is what will help you get bigger. Getting as much blood into the muscle as you can will only make the muscle grow. I personally never do reps lower than 8. I always try to hit reps around 10 or more with the heaviest possible weight (with correct form of course ) The goal in the gym is to "stimulate" the muscles to grow. You want to reach muscular failure in order to cause the muscles to grow. Partner training is necessary to do this SAFELY.

I wouldn't recommend that because it tears the hell out of your ligements, and you'll be suffering in 20 years. I know several weight nuts, including my pops, that have all kinds of pain from 'overlifting'.

Also, be really careful of your shoulders. Don't lift the weights above eye level, if you are taking dumbbells and lifting them straight out form your body. Something about compressing your shoulder that's not good.
Proper form will solve this problem. You can lift weights above eye level -- how else do you expect to get the shoulders to grow?? Sure you could do anterior raises, lateral raises, and posterior raises -- but compound movements are the best for growth. Isolation movements will help with the toning of the muscle.

Something that I'm nut sure is accurate, but if you target the same muscle group every day (say 100% for ten reps), your muscles won't have time to fully rebuild and you'll actually lose tone, but gain a whole lot of density, and it will gradually bulk up, but at a much slower pace. can anyone confirm/correct that? I think you can do stomach and forearms every day, however.
Of course rest is necessary. Your muscles need time recovery. Overtraining will not give your more density. Nor will it cause you to lose tone. What it will lead to is significant injury, perhaps getting sick, and a whole bunch of other problems you want to avoid.

Two hours after you lift, eat a dumpload of pasta. Your muscles will soak it up like a sponge. Oh yea, and don't eat 1-1/2 hours before or after you lift. All the blood goes to the stomach and starves your muscles. (I'm sure you know this part due to familiarity with the effects of eating and pot)
I wouldn't wait two hours after you workout to eat. That would be catabolic. You want to be anabolic to build muscle. Your muscles are starving for glycogen and protein soon after you are working out. Feed them good sources of protein and carbs. I would NOT eat pasta...even on a bet. Those types of complex carbs causes HUGE spikes in insulin...that's the opposite effect of what you want to accomplish. You want insulin levels to remain at a steady level all day. Insulin effects growth hormone in the system..and you don't want to do that

The best advice I can give to anyone about working out, is to take the years of research and science that has been done on the body and use it to your advantage. Don't guess on what to do in the gym. Have a plan, have a goal, and find the means of achieving this goal. Going about your workouts with no plan will lead to a platue and eventually frustration.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:47 pm

Awh crap. I never claimed to be a html type of guy. Boy did I hose that post above

Testiculese · Post by **Testiculese** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:47 pm

But warmups don't strengthen the ligaments. They just get you oiled up for the workout. I mentioned this because, as was my case, I felt like I was starting to atrophy due to lack of inactivity. If I put the weight that my muscles could handle, I'd have ripped every tendon I had!

Oh, that 100% for 4 reps, I meant as much load as you can put on to do 4 reps (50lbs for 10 reps, 80lbs for 4 reps). I suppose I was too vague there.

For the shoulders thing, isn't there a problem with the way sholders align when you put heavy weights above eye level (for the express purpose of building shoulders)? If you take a weight, let your arm hang, then lift the weight up, keeping arm extended all the way, either in front or to the side, going much above eye level I thought to be bad. Actually, my dad did, but that *could* have been because he used too many heavy weights with low reps, and screwed his ligaments all up.

No pasta? That's the best thing for carbs that I knew of...what's better? I was told by an instructor that you should wait an hour or there abouts before eating anything (Apparently so the muscles can get all the blood after a workout and absorb more oxy or something...)

Correct me all you want, I'm sure I could use adjustments in my routine. I'm going for tone and form, not for competition or anything. I don't have the proper frame, for one, I don't want to, for another. I'm just trying to build up so I can be like Sandmann and beat up all the other people at a LAN that use weapons I don't like. Watch yourself, Zuruck! (rofl!).

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:13 pm

But warmups don't strengthen the ligaments. They just get you oiled up for the workout. I mentioned this because, as was my case, I felt like I was starting to atrophy due to lack of inactivity. If I put the weight that my muscles could handle, I'd have ripped every tendon I had!

You and I are saying the same thing, Dave. You just can't go into the gym and start lifting heavy weights. Tendons, just like muscles, need to be stretched and warmed up. Prior to lifting any weight, ride a stationary bike for 10 minutes. It will get the blood flowing all around -- muscles and tendons alike. Then, whatever exercise you are doing, do one to two warm-up sets. Relatively light weight -- this prepares the muscles and tendons for the additional workload about to be bestowed on them

Oh, that 100% for 4 reps, I meant as much load as you can put on to do 4 reps (50lbs for 10 reps, 80lbs for 4 reps). I suppose I was too vague there.

Well yeah, you should try to pyramid your workouts. Depending on what you are doing, 5 sets for that particular muscle group should be good (including warm up). Your "working" sets would be sets 2 through 5. Each set should progressively get heavier -- I'd still go for the most reps you can do with each weight. If you can do more than 8 reps -- do more! It's at this time, when the muscle isn't used to doing that 9th, 10th, 11th rep -- that causes the muscle to grow and get stronger. Set 4 should be your heaviest set and the 5th set you can either 1) do the same weight as set 4 or 2) go lighter and try to get more reps. Once again, going for as much blood you can get into the muscle.

For the shoulders thing, isn't there a problem with the way sholders align when you put heavy weights above eye level (for the express purpose of building shoulders)? If you take a weight, let your arm hang, then lift the weight up, keeping arm extended all the way, either in front or to the side, going much above eye level I thought to be bad.

You are correct. That IS bad. That is also improper form. You should have a slight bend at the elbow when doign those type of raises. It puts way too much stress on your connective tissue and the rotator cuff. As you mentioned above, unfortunately your father experienced this. Shoulder injuries suck!

No pasta? That's the best thing for carbs that I knew of...what's better? I was told by an instructor that you should wait an hour or there abouts before eating anything (Apparently so the muscles can get all the blood after a workout and absorb more oxy or something...)

Maybe I should rephrase. Pasta isn't the best source of carbs your muscles could use at that time. I'm not one to tell someone not to eat pasta because it's "bad." Like anything else in life, moderation is key. Better sources for carbs would be anything that grows from mutter earf

Sweet potatoes, brown rice, veges, fruit. The best sources of food is anything that has walked, crawled, swam, flown (cept for the veges..they are pretty stationary

But they are good for you!)

Correct me all you want, I'm sure I could use adjustments in my routine. I'm going for tone and form, not for competition or anything. I don't have the proper frame, for one, I don't want to, for another. I'm just trying to build up so I can be like Sandmann and beat up all the other people at a LAN that use weapons I don't like. Watch yourself, Zuruck! (rofl!).

I'm wouldn't refer to this as correction, Dave. Think of this more of new information. I don't like telling people they are wrong. I've seen too many people seriously injur themselves in the gym because they didnt' know what they are doing. Knowledge is key to success in anything. Especially when you are trying to do, which i think is one of the most difficult things a person can do, is change their physical appearance through proper nutrition and weight training.

Just like you Dave, I'm not trying to compete in anything. But that doesn't mean you can't be intense in your weight training. Weight training is about 10% of your results. If you don't 'have proper nutrition or adequate rest...no matter how crazy you are in the gym...you won't get the results you should. Sure, you'll get stronger and maybe grow a bit...but eventually you'll platue.

And, ROTFLMAO at the Sandmann story. That's hilarious!!!!

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:27 pm

Good tips, but I don't care too much right now about working out my legs.

I don't know anything about sets either. When I've gone to the gym I just push weights till i'm tired. I do maybe 2 sets at once, maybe come back the machine later and do another 2.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:34 pm

Birdseye wrote:Good tips, but I don't care too much right now about working out my legs.

I don't know anything about sets either. When I've gone to the gym I just push weights till i'm tired. I do maybe 2 sets at once, maybe come back the machine later and do another 2.

Brian, just an fyi - it's no uncommon to see people train their legs and have other body parts grow. Training your legs hard will release a serious amount of growth hormone since the muscles are so large. Stick to compound movements and you'll be ok.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:54 pm

I'd like to add my $0.02 here and probably correct a few infos given here and underline some others.

Let me say one thing in advance: Your body is a machine with certain specs. If you do not operate it according to its specs, you will either damage it, or at least not bring it to its full potential. Therefore, you need to exercise methodically, using the knowledge people have gained about the workings of the body over the time. Exercising just when you feel like it, and do it like you feel you'd like to do it on a given occasion will not do anything for you. I see a lot of people exercising that way, and they are just wasting their money and time (apart from they feeling good about "having done something" - whatever "something" is, heh).

1 Nutrition

Ofc, the proper nutrition is helpful. The basic rule is not to eat more calories than you process over the day, and if you want to loose weight, eat less calories than you need. As a general advice, avoid food containing a lot of sugar (soft drinks!) or fat. Some fat is necessary for the body being able to keep it's hormonal balance. Some vitamins also can only processed by the body together with fat. Prefer food with polyunsaturated fat acids (is that the proper English expression?), olive oil e.g. would be very good when cooking with oil.

You should eat some carbohydrates 2-3 before working out to provide your body with enough energy for the workout, and 20-40 g of proteins not later than 1h after the workout to give your body something to build and repair its muscles. On the one side it is desirable not to eat to often to let the body access its excess fat and decrease insulin production (insulin will make the body turn excess calories to fat), in the long run this will give you a very good blood sugar balance, on the other side you will not want to eat excessive amounts of food at few times a day. You need to find your personal balance here.

It is also very important to drink enough, esp. before tough cardio-vascular training. Generally, should avoid the feeling of thirst during your training, because that will mean that your body is already dehydrated, and it cannot recover from that state under load. During training, drink often, and just a few sips. I prefer simple water.

2 Working out

2.1 Cardio-Vascular Training

The best nutrition will only make you healthy, but neither strong nor well-shaped w/o working out. The best way to gain overall fitness is cardio training. In the beginning, you can combine it with fat burner training. The goal is to increase your physical endurance, which relates to both muscles and your cardio-vascular and respiratory system. To have such training have an effect on your body, you will have to exercise for at least 30 minutes at a stretch at the appropriate heart rate for your age, sex, and level of physical fitness. People believe that in order to lose fat, you should exercise with a fat burner heart rate only, but this is not entirely true: If you do cardio training (higher heart rate), your body will learn to access its fat reserves sooner and to a greater percentage over the time, so in the end cardio training will increase your fat burning capacity under high work load considerably.

Weight Lifting

As your goal is shaping your body, you should not lift the greatest possible weight, but go for being able to move a certain weight for a certain number of repetitions.

1 - 5 reps: Gain maximum strength
8 - 12 reps: Increase muscle mass, increase endurance
> 12 reps: Increase muscle definition, increase endurance

A very good way to get in shape in the beginning is using good machines, as these can greatly help you to avoid exercising wrong. Generally, muscle strength and mass are being increased by the tension of a muscle - not by weight! Ofc, big weights lead to strong muscle tension, but can damage your health, esp. if you are a beginner. A very good way is to exercise with very slow movements, and hold the weight in between. Lets e.g. take bench pressing. Here you would lower the weight slowly during a time of about 5-6 seconds (which is very slow), hold the weight in lowered position for about 5-6 seconds, and press it up, again in about 5-6 seconds. You should reach 8 - 12 reps, and one set is sufficient! You will need pretty low weights for this and feel an effect very quickly. You will also put very little stress on joints and ligaments this way. You can shorten the times to 4-2-4 seconds for a different method with bigger weights. Generally, one set of exercises should not exceed one hour, because then you will not be able to fully concentrate any more and this will not properly exercise your muscles.

Imo it makes sense to exercise groups of antagonists (e.g. biceps/triceps, or back/belly+chest).

It is also a good idea to change your method of working out every 3 - 6 months because your body will get used to the exercises, making them less and less efficient. Ofc, free weights have a great advantage here over machines.

Once you have gained sufficient strength and will not progress any more, you might want to change your method and increase your number of sets. I had to do this esp. for my arms (I am currently doing 6 sets of 8-12 reps for each biceps and triceps).

3. Recovering

Your body needs time to recover between exercises. In the beginning, you should not exercise the same group of muscles more than every three days. This has something to do with "over-compensation": After a muscle has been exhausted, it will first take some time to recover it (about 48h). After that time, the body will take provisions to be better able to handle such a load next time, and build some more muscle (48-72h). This is the perfect time to exercise the same group of muscles. For very highly trained athletes, over compensation can start as late as 6-7 days after the last training session for that muscle.

You should also stretch every muscle after having used it. This will relax it to some degree, improving blood flow and increasing strength (a longer muscle can contract longer).

For cardio-vascular training, things are a little different. Unless you have also exhausted your muscles very much, you can exercise almost every day, with one or two days of rest per week.

If combined with weight lifting however, this does not make much sense, as your body also needs to refill its carbo hydrate storage. If you can take it, you can alternately do weight lifting and cardio vascular training, and rest on the week ends.

--------------------

As far as the shoulders go: There is a sinew that runs through your shoulder and is located between two bones. If you lift your arm above shoulder height (esp. when stretched out to the sides), one of the bones rubs on that sinew. If you do that for years, you damage that sinew, giving you constant pain. Forever. There is no healing.

You also shouldn't bend your knees more than 90 degrees, esp. with big weights.

As far as growth hormones go: Afaik your muscles do not grow due to some hormone being produced (although I am not sure about this). Growth hormone makes your whole body grow (during adolescence). I have never experienced any other muscles growing when exercising an isolated, big muscles. This might be a side of effect of putting your whole body under tension when exercising, esp. when doing a lot of reps with big weights.

Teddy · Post by **Teddy** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:56 pm

Wow, seems most here have been getting thier nutrition info from personal trainers at gyms or fitness mag's.... While most of these recomendations give quick results, they are in the long run, are very hard on your digestive system and health.

Eating more then 3 meals in a day will help you bulk up faster as you constantly supply your muscles with nutrition, however while you make sure your arms and legs get a day off inbetween workouts.... not many will consider what kind of harm they are doing by not letting thier digestive track rest properly inbetween meals. A few nutritionalist out there who actually try and overlook the whole pictuer have spotted this problem and have VERY solid evidence to back up how bad this habit is on your body in the long run.
A statement that makes sence to me was "eat like a king for breakfast, a queen for lunch and IF you have to have 3 meals a day, a light snack for dinner"
each meal shoule be a min of 5 hours apart to give your body proper time to be ready for next meal.

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:41 pm

Nah, you people are all wrong. Just go work out whatever you want every few days, eat whatever you want, trying to get some extra protein when it's convenient for you, drink when you're thirsty, and you'll get results you'll be satisfied with, although you might not win Ahnold in an arm wrestling match. Trust me, it works for me, and millions of others out there.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:55 am

Teddy,

I am eating about 3 - 5 times a day, whenever I feel hungry. I am eating more on days where I work out. I do not eat all that big portions. I still feel very well. Eating 5 meals a day does not mean eating all the time. When I am however hungry - well, what should I do? I am doing cardio training for over 20 years (with a break in between), and I started doing sports regularly 30 years ago. So I believe my statements are pretty valid and backed by personal experience.

Jeff,

"it works" it pretty relative. You will never achieve the results you will when working out physiologically correct - even if you don't want to look like Arnold in his best days.

Mickey1 · Post by **Mickey1** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:09 pm

I play tennis and do some free weights. I'm 56 and still give the kids a hard time on the court. Find something you can fight for your life doing; like in D3. Motivation is the key to success. Find something you love to do that is a workout. Play till you drop. You will get results.

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:35 pm

Yeah, I want to get back into soccer. That was the best fitness out of anything I've ever done. Nothing pushes you to dig out that extra mile like a sport.

I'm not gonna eat 4 meals a day, heh! I eat 2 big meals and one lighter meal/snack. But I do eat a lot of good meat like turkey. I also only buy my food at natural food stores so my food is fresh and (mostly) without preservatives. Vegetables are organic too. I'm sure many of the non-organic veggies are good too, I've just found I prefer the taste of organic stuff more. That's actually why I primarily eat it. After eating turkey from our local natural food store, I can't stand safeway turkey or most restraunt chicken.

In my soccer days though I never had a strong upper body, so I want to lift weights to compliment the cardio. I always do leg press anyway, it's fun because I still have really strong legs. In high school I could max the leg press while some of the beefcake football players couldn't

Thanks for the tips!

XeonJr · Post by **XeonJr** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 7:46 pm

Just because you eat 2 BIG meals a day does not mean you digest it. I think you will find that most of what you eat is wasted. Your body can only digest a limited amount of food at any time. That is why it is recommended that you eat smaller meals 4-6 times per day. A meal might be an apple or a sandwich

If you do not eat correctly you are wasting your time. It's like going to school and falling asleep in every class

When you work out, your body has to have the nutrients on hand or it cannot recover.

Sickone · Post by **Sickone** » Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:14 pm

Hey ya Birds

I sure don't get the exersize I should these days - all I do is work.

Though I have started working on the back yard. Let me tell ya, you'd be busting my chops. Seeing an old guy swing a pick is pretty funny. The raised bed/retaining wall alone required 18 tons of material. mommy - make it stop.

I can say that through the years, my constant exersize has given me a right bicept that is three times the size of my left

Birdseye · Post by **Birdseye** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:29 pm

An apple is a meal? Hell, I eat like 5 meals then.

Oh and Kevin, the work you did for me last time I was over I sure would call exercise--at least for me. Damn you're a lump in the sack. No wonder April keeps sending you to the backyard for a workout. And you can ★■◆● off about getting any tips--tips are reserved for above and behind service.

Now let's be honest about how your right hand got so strong...

Zuruck · Post by **Zuruck** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:41 am

you really should at least work your legs a bit. Your body will look strange if you have a V upper body shape and little bird legs. You don't have to get the ripped, but make them proportional. I didn't like how I looked when I got out of high school, I tipped the scale at around 165 lbs. That's not bad, but I'm also 6'4". So you can imagine, I was quite skinny. I started going to a gym because I wanted to change all that, I took creatine on a daily basis and took that Cell-Tech stuff you can find at GNC. I now weigh about 210 lbs. Not quite my target weight yet, but I'm getting there. If I can give you a tip about lifting it's this, only use free weights. A lot of people swear by the isometric machines and they are nice and avoid injury, but when you lift a free weight not only are you going to isolate the muscle that you want to work, but all your tendons and joints that are required to lift that object just to balance are also given a workout. The only drawback is that it's more hazardous and you HAVE to pay attention to your safety. Do not walk in there thinking your tough and try to butterfly 120 lb dumbells. You'll blow out your elbow faster than you can belive. And that sucks azz.

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:55 am

I cannot recommend using creatine or other stuff making your muscles grow faster/bigger.

Creatine causes your body to get more water in it's cells, and other stuff can seriously damage your health in the long run.

All I can recommend is to eat some extra proteine after a workout. Btw, the body will not use more than about 40g of pure protein per meal, so eating 200 g is simply wasting it (the excess will be turned into fat or used as "fuel" like carbohydrates).

I am 1,75m and have 90 kilos, and I have never used any such stuff, only been working out hard.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:28 am

I took fencing for a while, and our drill instructor of an excercise guy gave us a few things to do to strengthen ourselves WITHOUT WEIGHTS.

1. Push-ups

These things are not done correctly by the majority of people. Spread your legs apart, put your hands so that they are about 1 foot straight out from your shoulders, and let only your hands, nose, and feet touch the ground. None of that arching your back stuff either. Then, lift. Hold yourself in the up position, arms straight, for at least 2 seconds. Let yourself back down, again, ONLY hands, toes, and nose touching the ground. Stay there for at least 2 seconds. Repeat until you feel burning in your arms. That's the muscles growing.

2. Chinese sit-ups

Lay flat on the ground. raise your legs at a 45 degree angle, and keep them straight. No bending at the knees. Raise your back off the ground, and keep your head and neck in line with it. Also keep these at a 45 degree angle. Hold your arms out flat at your sides, off the ground, palms up. They should reach just beyond your rear end. Use them to balance yourself. Hold this position until you can't any longer.

3. Whatchamacallit excercise (I have no idea what it's called)

Stand up straight. Squat down so that your waist and knees are forming 90 degree angles, and hold your hands out in front of you (no touching anything). Do not let your knees or waist form and more or less than 90 degree angles. Support yourself in this position for as long as you can.

I hated these excercises like poison, but evidently they worked. Even though I'm no longer taking fencing (I'm 15 and school is catching up with me) I can still lift over 200 pounds easily.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:45 pm

Stryker wrote: . That's the muscles growing.

Actually that's the muscle begining to fatigue. Muscles WILL NOT grow while you work out. Sure you can get a pump that will make the muscle temporarily bigger, but they will not grow during a work out.

Other than that, what you suggested are great exercises for core body strength!

Suncho · Post by **Suncho** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:15 pm

Scratch wrote:
Stryker wrote: . That's the muscles growing.
Actually that's the muscle begining to fatigue.

Actually that's lactic acid building up as a result of anaerobic metabolism. Basically when you're working so hard that you're using up all the oxygen in your blood, the body uses another chemical reaction to provide more energy. Lactic acid is a byproduct of that reaction. The change in the acidity levels in your muscle tissue is the burning sensation you feel.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:51 pm

It may not be the muscles growing, but it's a sign that the muscles are GOING to grow.

roid · Post by **roid** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:19 pm

thx stryker i'm gonna try that, they seem like good exercises.
...
argh those pushups are really hard to do (i only weigh 63kilos atm, coz of sickness). i'll have to go in baby steps heh

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:24 am

Wow, lots of good info in here!

In summation, here are the things that have worked for me in the past (I'll keep it brief):

5-6 SMALLER meals a day. By this, I mean generally, a small healthy breakfast, a snack, then a small healthy lunch, a snack, then a small healthy dinner, with another healthy snack later on if needed. The key word is HEALTHY. Additionally, avoid carbs in the evening. Your body needs carbs for energy in the daytime, but in the evening, when you're less active the carbs tend to be stored as fat. Remember, proper nutrition is KEY.

Workouts:

Cardio-Minimum of 20 continuous minutes (45 is ideal for me) of good cardio, 3+ times a week . Focus on exercises that hit the large muscle groups in your legs (Glutes, Hams, Quads) for maximum benefits and fat burning.

Weight Training- DO break up your workouts by muscle groups. Whole body workouts are far less effective, for a lot of reasons. Scratch had a good plan in his first post, mine differs only in details.

Now, Carter, one question: I've always been in the "High Intensity Training" school of thought. Max weight, minimum repetitions (ie: use the maximum weight you can move with good form for 4-7 reps). Admittedly, I'm pretty small these days, but I haven't been inside a gym in darn near 5 years. I really need to get back to the gym, so what are your feelings on the pros & cons of my thoughts vs. your recommendations?

Diedel · Post by **Diedel** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:42 am

20 mins of Cardio training has no effect. 30 mins is minimum.

Re full body workout: WA is correct here. Actually, you will be exhausted before having sufficiently exercised all muscles, thus not effectively working out the muscles used last. The usual human span of full concentration also is about 45 - 60 minutes - after that period of time, you will not be able to fully concentrate on your work out, making it less effective.

Weights: I'd go for 8 - 12 reps, either one slow set on a machine for beginners, or several sets with free weights for advanced ppl, with decreasing # of reps (like 12 - 10 - 8 ).

You should work out the big muscles first, as these consume the most energy, or have day where you only work out smaller ones (arms, chest, shoulders/neck) if you want to emphasize these.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:28 am

WarAdvocat wrote:
Now, Carter, one question: I've always been in the "High Intensity Training" school of thought. Max weight, minimum repetitions (ie: use the maximum weight you can move with good form for 4-7 reps). Admittedly, I'm pretty small these days, but I haven't been inside a gym in darn near 5 years. I really need to get back to the gym, so what are your feelings on the pros & cons of my thoughts vs. your recommendations?

Chris, the type of training you do in the gym SHOULD reflect what your goals are. If your goals are to get stronger -- then what you have mentioned will do that. Long as your diet is clean, you will gain lean mass.

Before I get into a disucssion about the pro's/con's of the types of training -- tell me, Chris, what are your goals??

I will say this though:

Variety is a vital key to weight training success and switching exercise variables frequently shocks your muscles for growth!

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:05 am

this probably isn't the place for a discussion on it, but my goals are strength and fitness more than bulk, and I don't want to spend 10 hours a week in the gym. Maybe 5 hours. I'd also like a nice six-pack but the genetics are against me there, I think.

Catch me in chat unless you think it'd be relevant here.