M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB - 2?

For system help, all hardware / software topics NOTE: use Coders Corner for all coders topics.

Moderators: Krom, Grendel

crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

very nice.. just keep me posted grendel
claancy
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:01 pm

Post by claancy »

Hi,

If it's not too late, I'd like to get two of these. I haven't been able to find a 'stick that I like as much as my old Sidewinders, and then I stumbled into this forum...
User avatar
KoolBear
DBB Co-Founder
DBB Co-Founder
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
Contact:

Post by KoolBear »

Ok top prices are for running the boards AS IS, this means NOT setup for wave soldering. The bottom set of figures covers recreating the boards i.e. panelization.

I can not, nor will I be willing to solder boards....

SO it's up to you if you want to pay more for a completed unit or if I just purchase blank boards and leave each of you with that. (about 8 bucks per board more!)
Mike,

Individual route prices.

60 brds-2wks-$400.00 Lot
60 brds-wk-$500.00 Lot

Breakaway panel pricing below

3 panels=$140.00/panel
Re-Tooling $120.00=Total-$540.00
21 up (3 x 7)- 10 x 14 finish Panel Size

Credit Card or check payment in advance.

Thanks,
Debra
Gemini Circuits
I'm positive this price doesn't reflect the 8.25% sales tax.

So ... I need to know what everyone wants to do.

claancy I added your's to the mix.
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

so what's the official price for the boards, completed? or will I not worry about that price too much since Grendel is looking into the FFP for me?
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

Good news -- I do have the code modified so the converter can talk to the Precision Pro or 3D Pro Plus (older version of the PP). Since the FFP has supposedly the same data format, it's very likely that the converter will work w/ the FFP as well :)

The code needs some more work -- right now there are two different version of the firmware to talk to a 3DP or the PP series. I would like to have them merged in a way that the converter detects if a 3DP or PP type stick is connected and selects the appropriate set of USB descriptors. It's not that trivial tho, it'll take a bit until I'm there. Also, somehow I need to verify that the FFP will work of course..

Image
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

that's great news grendel!! if you need me to do anything.. or want extra compensation for all your hard work, i'm willing.. just wanna be able to use my ffp =P
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

Nah, as long it's entertaining for me I'm fine ;)

Currently the firmware actually detects what stick is connected (3DP or PP) and uses different USB descriptors & processing code. Ie. a 3DP shows up as \"Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro (USB)\" and the PP as \"Microsoft SideWinder Precision Pro (USB)\". I do have the set for the \"Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback Pro (USB)\" in place, but I need a FFP for testing. Working on it..
Grax
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:07 pm

..

Post by Grax »

put me down for a complete, m8
User avatar
WillyP
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: NH
Contact:

Post by WillyP »

If this works for the Prescision, put me down for a second unit. If you need a PP for testing, I can mail you one.
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

I got two PP's, thanks -- works w/ them (old & new version). I need a FFP -- just missed the end of the auction I put my eye on. Work sux, too distracting ;)

Edit: Here is a picture of the \"hardware modification\" that needs to be done for use w/ the PP (or FFP). A 3DP will still work w/ the mod.

Image
ImageImage
vb
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 am

Post by vb »

Hi,

1st post here. :)

To KoolBear, just wondering if it is possible for me to get the PCB file since I planning to build it my self.

Anyway, thanks for the great work, really appreciate your effort there.

Vic
User avatar
WillyP
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 461
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:57 pm
Location: NH
Contact:

Post by WillyP »

Cool! I know you don't like the PP, so thanks for doing this for those of us who do... I have two PP's and one 3D... and only one machine with a gameport. ;)
User avatar
KoolBear
DBB Co-Founder
DBB Co-Founder
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
Contact:

Post by KoolBear »

1st Thread updates...

petem-j 1 Unit - by PM
Grax - 1 Unit
WillyP +1 Unit = 2 Units now

vb - all project files are located on the Grendels 3DP-Vert Website at http://grendel.koolbear.com/ or here's a direct link HERE

KB
vb
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 am

Re:

Post by vb »

KoolBear wrote: vb - all project files are located on the Grendels 3DP-Vert Website at http://grendel.koolbear.com/ or here's a direct link HERE
KB
Yeah, I've downloaded it, still there is no PCB files there.

What did you use for the PCB layout program ? Eagle ?
User avatar
KoolBear
DBB Co-Founder
DBB Co-Founder
Posts: 10132
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Location: Houston, TX USA
Contact:

Post by KoolBear »

OrCAD. OOP's maybe Grendel asked me for those. I'll find them AFTER I take my kids to the movies.

KB
Lethe
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:37 pm

Post by Lethe »

Hm, put me down for two full boards, in their little box and everything.
What I want to do:
connect my two sw3dpros to USB ports.

More specifically, I want the damn \"not connected\" error to go away and I want to future proof my joysticks so I can continue to play the best game ever with the best joysticks ever made.

Still taking orders I hope?
User avatar
Bold Deceiver
DBB Captain
DBB Captain
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Somewhere in SoCal

Re:

Post by Bold Deceiver »

KoolBear wrote:SO it's up to you if you want to pay more for a completed unit ... (about 8 bucks per board more!)
I would need completed units Mike. Can pay in advance if needed.

Thanks for your work,

Joe
vb
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 am

Re:

Post by vb »

KoolBear wrote:OrCAD. OOP's maybe Grendel asked me for those. I'll find them AFTER I take my kids to the movies.

KB
Oh, ok ! Since I'm planning to do the laser printer toner transfer method, but I don't have OrCAD.

Is it possible to generate PDF file with 100% scale which usually very accurate, so don't have to go through scaling nighmare ! :)

Thanks.
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

Getting a FFP tomorrow, stay tuned :)
ImageImage
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

that's awesome grendel!.. let me know how it goes, if it works, i'll be ecstatic! =P =P
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

Image

So far so good. Needs more work, for some reason I can't get the ID packet out of this stick so the current condition to distinguish betw. the PP & FFP is the absense of an ID. Also, the FFP pulls all button lines low by default (3DP & PP pull them up..), I had to modify the bootloader to make that work. Work in progress, but I would say that the firmware for this batch of 3DP-Verts will support the 3DP, PP, and FFP. :)

The FFP I got has the part no. 96755, product ID starts w/ 66883-.. This FFP doesn't have a fan (the one I got in germany back in 97 had one). Anyone w/ different numbers ?
ImageImage
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

the part num on mine is 96755

the ID starts with 66883

so the same for me
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

I'll deem it ok for now. Finished the detection of PP/FFP using the weired default button state of the FFP, figured out why I can't get an ID packet (hardware restriction, R/C timing value too big) and tried the PP & FFP for 10min each -- about as much time as I'm willing to spend on those sticks :) You get a 30% chance that the PPs or FFPs microcontroller crashes if you plug it into a powered converter, but it seems to work 100% if you plug the stick in first and then connect the converter to USB.

The FFP is probably the most sturdy stick of the three, but also has a lot longer throw. The PP is the weakest of the three IMO, I don't like its flimsyness & handling at all. To each his own I guess ;)

This version of the code will go into this batch of converters if it happens. I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.
ImageImage
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

sweet grendel!.. thanks for all your hard work on this.. it is much appreciated by me, as well as some other people out there.. and of course, i'd like one of the FFP ones =P
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Re:

Post by Grendel »

Grendel wrote:I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.
Done. Slow day.. :)
ImageImage
vb
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:29 am

Re:

Post by vb »

Grendel wrote:
Grendel wrote:I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.
Done. Slow day.. :)
Grendel,

Could you please zip in the PCB files as well, converted PDF if possible since I don't have OrCAD.

Thank you.
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

I still don't have them, sorry. KB ?
ImageImage
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

so, just curious, when will the FFP batch be ready for to buy? =P

i'm willing to wait however long
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Re:

Post by Grendel »

Grendel wrote:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Unit Price USD|Extended Price USD

47  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP     2.30000 $108.10 
47  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP        0.36000 $16.92 
47  X227-ND         CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US  0.51800 $24.35 
94  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35  0.21000 $19.74 
50  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  0.05400 $2.70 
50  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM 0.05400 $2.70 
95  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   0.05400 $5.13 
145 2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM 0.05400 $7.83 
47  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL  0.07700 $3.62 
94  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL      0.21200 $19.93 
190 BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%   0.05010 $9.52 
94  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL      0.15700 $14.76 
47  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB       1.13000 $53.11 
47  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318" R/A NICKEL 1.46200 $68.71 
50  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR 0.27800 $13.90 

Subtotal $371.02
KB -- change in BOM: replace caps C8 & C9 (10nF) with 4.7nF BC1076CT-ND (CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%).

The per-board requirement of

4x BC1095CT-ND (CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)

changes to

2x BC1095CT-ND (CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)
2x BC1076CT-ND (CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)

That way the converter is 100% compatible to the 3DP, PP & FFP.

A new project archive from today is available.
ImageImage
Tony12
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:30 pm

Please count me in for one complete unit if not too late!

Post by Tony12 »

Found this forum while looking for a way to use my Sidewinder 3D Pro on my new XP PC. It's just killing me not being able to use it. I bought a Seitek Cyborg and it just doesn't compare. Sure would appreciate it.

Tony12
Tony12
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:30 pm

Sorry about that.

Post by Tony12 »

Sorry about that. Thought the subject line would show my request. I'd like you to put me in for one complete unit if it's not too late. Thank you.

Tony12
crazy328
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by crazy328 »

i would like to get a complete unit for the FFP if that's at all possible =D
User avatar
JazzyJet
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA

Post by JazzyJet »

I would buy two for sure
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Re:

Post by Grendel »

KB -- another (possible) change in the BOM: Y1 can now be a 16MHz crystal. That relaxes the timing of the routine that clocks in the data from the stick. I'm testing this mod ATM, PM me before you order components.

The per board requirement of

1x X227-ND CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US

would change to

1x X176-ND CRYSTAL 16.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US

Project archive of today is available.
ImageImage
dirt
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Maui, Hawaii

Post by dirt »

Hey kb, thnx for the login fix, e-mail was verified by your return.

Current 'puter sans a joystick port, can sign me up for two complete units...and where/how do I pay for this???

dirt
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Post by Grendel »

Ok, the 16MHz crystal is a \"go\". Current BOM for a single unit w/ DigiKey part numbers is:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Schematic
1  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP      U1
1  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP         U2
1  X176-ND CRYSTAL 16.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US           Y1
2  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35   D1,D2
1  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   R1
1  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R2
2  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM    R3,R4
3  2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R5,R6,R7
1  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL   C1
2  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL       C2,C3
2  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL       C4,C5
2  BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C6,C7
2  BC1076CT-ND     CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C8,C9
1  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB        JP1
1  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318\" R/A NICKEL  J2
1  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR  DS1
Dang proportional font.. Someone change the CODE font to courier please..
Mowgli
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:03 am

From Erin's green (and wet!) Isle

Post by Mowgli »

Hey, guys.

Like a few other people I've stumbled across this board while trying to resurrect my old Sidewinder 3D Pro.

If it's possible I'd love to sign up for either a kit of parts or complete assembly - whichever's easiest to ship across the water.

Any chance?

Mowgli
Lightnin
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:05 pm

Post by Lightnin »

Will these work with Vista Ultimate 64 bit version?

If so, please put me down for the following:

1x full Unit
1x bare board only

Thanks a ton!
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Re:

Post by Grendel »

Lightnin wrote:Will these work with Vista Ultimate 64 bit version?
I tried it w/ a Laptop that had Vista Home something on it, worked just fine. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work w/ x64 U :)
ImageImage
User avatar
Grendel
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
Posts: 4390
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Location: Corvallis OR, USA

Re:

Post by Grendel »

Grendel wrote:Ok, the 16MHz crystal is a "go".
Turns out that the 16MHz code path is less reliable than the 12MHz version. So for now back to the 12MHz crystal, sorry for the confusion. KB, get your vent going ;)

Current BOM for a single unit w/ DigiKey part numbers is:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Schematic
1  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP      U1
1  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP         U2
1  X227-ND         CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US           Y1
2  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35   D1,D2
1  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   R1
1  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R2
2  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM    R3,R4
3  2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R5,R6,R7
1  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL   C1
2  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL       C2,C3
2  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL       C4,C5
2  BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C6,C7
2  BC1076CT-ND     CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C8,C9
1  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB        JP1
1  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318" R/A NICKEL  J2
1  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR  DS1
Post Reply