DescentBB

Red_5 wrote:BACK ON TOPIC!!!!

Wasn't SOME progress made on Descent 4 before the project was cancelled? If so, that's slightly less development time to worry about.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Blah there is no topic to speak of.

But yea D3jake? you DO know you can quote someoneone AFTER they delete their post and it still shows up provided you don't refresh the page.

So instead of trying to make me look like a fool, step back and try it yourself. Also, why would I misquote and try and cover my ass like that? Not only does that not make any sense, it's also a very stupid thing to do.

I have some salt for that foot you've just stuck in your mouth if you want.


Yea IIRC some progress WAS made but as it was stated before, it was effectively killed due to legal issues.

Red_5 wrote:Wasn't SOME progress made on Descent 4 before the project was cancelled? If so, that's slightly less development time to worry about.

slightly less development?

Are you kidding? By now it would be a waist of time to continue from where they left off.
With such a dated engine. It would be better to start all over again with todays engines.

With the way graphics are being done today. D4 needs to appeal to a much wider audience to make money from it.
Pump more detail into it - better models, textures, lighting, sounds and so on...

Why go backwards? It's time to move forwards.

The only thing they would need to keep from the dead D4 project would be that nearly perfect model of the Pyro GX.

BTW, I"m not letting a rerailing to being ontopic stop a rebuttal...

[quote=Ferno]So instead of trying to make me look like a fool, step back and try it yourself. Also, why would I misquote and try and cover my ass like that? Not only does that not make any sense, it's also a very stupid thing to do.

I have some salt for that foot you've just stuck in your mouth if you want.
[/quote]

Well, I hate to say it but I would put it in writing\\swear on a bible, or make a blood oath that the quote that you had wasn't written properly, and then suddenly when I quoted you, it was suddenly fixed. SO I was wrong to assume that you did it, but it didn't magically fix itself now did it?

To me, the news is simply Interplay fishing for financing. They will never publish another game. They are more dead than Atari. They barely exist as a company. Anyone who expresses an interest would probably realize that Interplay would demand a significant infusion of capitol. THQ recently bought the rights to Homeworld for Relic, so it's not out of the question, but it is unlikely.

The operative question would certainly be what is the Descent name even worth anymore? Realistically, nothing. Nintendo would sooner make a sequel to Faxanadu.

It comes down to the market more than anything else. The cost of making a \"next gen\" game is in the tens of millions. If a publisher is going to expend that kind of money and support a two year development cycle, they are going to want something proven in the market. Descent, contrary to what anyone here may think, is not proven. Blame it on whatever you want, Descent 3 flubbed big time. Ten years have passed since then and there really haven't been any games featuring this exact style of gameplay. There may be a reason for this. If the market is the reason, then a publisher would first want to test the waters to see if a viable market still exists.

Which is why if Interplay was at all serious about developing a new Descent game, you would see them begin to push the original games more. Getting Descent on Xbox Live Arcade would be the first move to test the waters. I don't see that happening.

Aus-RED-5 wrote:

Red_5 wrote:Wasn't SOME progress made on Descent 4 before the project was cancelled? If so, that's slightly less development time to worry about.

slightly less development?

Are you kidding? By now it would be a waist of time to continue from where they left off.
With such a dated engine. It would be better to start all over again with todays engines.

With the way graphics are being done today. D4 needs to appeal to a much wider audience to make money from it.
Pump more detail into it - better models, textures, lighting, sounds and so on...

Why go backwards? It's time to move forwards.

Good point. Well, here's hoping they pull it off. If they do it right, (ie, release it for systems other than PC,) it should sell pretty darn good.

Kyouryuu wrote:To me, the news is simply Interplay fishing for financing. They will never publish another game. They are more dead than Atari. They barely exist as a company. Anyone who expresses an interest would probably realize that Interplay would demand a significant infusion of capitol. THQ recently bought the rights to Homeworld for Relic, so it's not out of the question, but it is unlikely.

The operative question would certainly be what is the Descent name even worth anymore? Realistically, nothing. Nintendo would sooner make a sequel to Faxanadu.

It comes down to the market more than anything else. The cost of making a "next gen" game is in the tens of millions. If a publisher is going to expend that kind of money and support a two year development cycle, they are going to want something proven in the market. Descent, contrary to what anyone here may think, is not proven. Blame it on whatever you want, Descent 3 flubbed big time. Ten years have passed since then and there really haven't been any games featuring this exact style of gameplay. There may be a reason for this. If the market is the reason, then a publisher would first want to test the waters to see if a viable market still exists.

Which is why if Interplay was at all serious about developing a new Descent game, you would see them begin to push the original games more. Getting Descent on Xbox Live Arcade would be the first move to test the waters. I don't see that happening.

I don't really see descent being played on on an xbox or any console for that matter. The controls are to demanding for what a gamepad can offer. I guess you could make it so the buttons in the back of the controller can make you rotate... but for someone that uses an ass backwards control setting with stick... this just does not appeal to me. I do see how it would need to be involved with the console games... seeing how pc gaming is almost dead and companies put almost no effort anymore to making a ranking system or anything that I have seen built into the game... I personally liked how you had to gain ranks in descent... and like in socom how you had to build your stats up to play in certain games. I don't know... My emotions are mixed on this.

Descent was put on console in 1997. Don't see why it'd be harder now.

Also, your multiplayer rank in Descent had absolutely zero bearing on what you could do there.

I haven't posted here in years. But I hear this as good news.

Has it been 10 YEARS since Descent 3? Well, I have been patient. In the meantime, I have learned to really enjoy Halo, and Quake 4, among others. They do have levels when you can operate craft and vehicles and shoot. Not strict groundpounders. Way back in '98, I was thinking that it might be fun in Descent to jump out of the Pyro once in awhile and run around and shoot things.

Descent IV (when and if it ever gets developed) might be intersting as a mixed shooter, primarily in the craft, occasionally groundpounding.

I think the Descent brand is still strong, and it hasn't been overtaken by any competitor in the genre in the ten years it has languished. Reviving it with a game that appeals not only to us here, but also to the huge mass of groundpounding enthusiasts could be possible. It might not be exactly like the old Descents we love, but it could be something much, much different and much more exciting.

Regarding consoles vs. PC. I just downloaded the demo for Need For Speed Pro Street. It ran at less than one frame per second on my household's fastest PC. I have three PCs in my house -- which are mainly intended for schoolwork and office work. They all run games fairly well. There is no way I am upgrading these PCs just to play modern games. I think the game engines and game design are surpassing the power of mainstream PCs so fast that I am seeing myself playing more and more games on consoles (Playstation in my house) and fewer and fewer games on the PC. That's why I decided that if I am going to spend money on hardware to play games, that money is better spent on a gaming console than on PC hardware. Still, it's hard to imagine playing Descent IV on a console. Gotta have a joystick. One way would be to package a wireless joystick with the console version of the game (think Guitar Hero).

Finally, it's a business. When MS spends, what, $70 million to make Halo3, this is a very serious business. Descent (heck, ANY game story) has potential. The trick is to find an advocate who can successfully design, pitch and SELL the game to investors. I encourage Interplay, and I hope for its success in getting Descent IV into development. Now I wait... some more.

PS. An MDK revival would be received with huge \"Hoorays\" at my house. I loved MDK and MDK2. Just finished replaying both of them again last month.

Yea, I can say i'm going to crap in a box and ship it to ya but I wouldn't hold your breath until I do. Thats my $0.02 on interplay making another descent.

Not quite, it's only been eight years since Descent 3.

A console Descent isn't impossible, but it'd be tricky to make it very playable. To do that, you'd need some serious lateral thinking... or you can just use motion-sensitive controllers such as that of the Wii. Neither is impossible, although they'd sure be different to what you're used to. Thinking about it, though, if people have successfully adapted FPS games to the console, Descent isn't much more of a stretch.

The PS2 or xbox controllers are good enough for Descent. You don't need any more axes of control.

L stick - Slide (press=Roll L)
R Stick - Pitch/Yaw (press=Roll R)
Triggers = Fire pri/sec
Burner on the shoulder buttons (on both so you can burner and fire at the same time)
D-Pad fwd - Flare
D-Pad rev - R. View
A/B Pri/Sec Cycle

There's 2 extra buttons even (X & Y).

Totally Doable.

You forgot forward & back, B.

From my experience, the PS1/PS2 controllers didn't quite have enough controls for Descent & Descent:Maximum. Enough for basic flying and shooting, yes, but to switch weapons you had to take your thumbs off the sticks.

I've also tried D3 using an XBox 360 controller - it was playable, just didn't feel right.

Now, using the Wii-mote/Wii-chuk... that could work.

I kinda forgot those yeah... but it's still doable methinks. =) Maybe not to the standard we expect with a full keyboard, mouse and joystick to choose from.

But modern consoles can accept bluetooth keyboards and meece anyhow so maybe some kind of bastard hybrid kb/controller config

I had no problems playing Descent/Descent Maximum on meh Playstation

but then again I used THIS

Foil wrote: Now, using the Wii-mote/Wii-chuk... that could work.

Funny you should mention that Foil - someone has gone and done exactally that.

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/0 ... ew-depths/

Check out the you-tube video embedded in the page - you can see the guy playing D1-3 on the Wii - and while it would be a huge adjustment, if it means fresh meat and a new life for Descent, I reckon I could handle learnign a new config.

Gekko71 wrote:

Foil wrote: Now, using the Wii-mote/Wii-chuk... that could work.

Funny you should mention that Foil - someone has gone and done exactally that.

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/0 ... ew-depths/

Check out the you-tube video embedded in the page - you can see the guy playing D1-3 on the Wii - and while it would be a huge adjustment, if it means fresh meat and a new life for Descent, I reckon I could handle learnign a new config.

GlovePIE strikes again eh

Although I really think that Wiimote and Nunchuk are cool input devices and definately better suited to control descent than an XBOX or PS2 controller I don't think anything can supersede a flight control system like the Gravis Phoenix or the one BUBBALOU has.
I really love playing Descent with my Phoenix - it has 4 axes and 24 programmable buttons (I use the 4 on the throttle for sliding) - I don't need the keyboard anymore
It's a shame I can't use it on my laptop but one day I will build a USB adaptor for it so I can use it on modern systems. Why don't they make these kinds of joysticks anymore?

Neumaennl wrote:It's a shame I can't use it on my laptop but one day I will build a USB adaptor for it so I can use it on modern systems. Why don't they make these kinds of joysticks anymore?

they need to make some kinda universal usb adapter. i've got a useless steering wheel now (doubt it'd need it's power adapters with proepr usb integration as well)

I think that I have a spare Sound Blaster PCI card lying around with a game port on it, I have one in my computer so I can use the game port with my Sidewinder 3dpro without one of Grendels adapters. Only trouble is that sometimes the joy would randomly stop being read, but I get past that...

Doesn't the wii have a gamepad that is motion sensitive like the wiimote? If you mapped banking to the gamepad's motion-sensors, you could bank left/right by tilting the controller on a horozontal axis ...that would make it a bit less of an adjustment. (I do this kind of stuff instinctively whenever I use a gamepad anyway - whether 6dof is built-in or not.)

Let's not forget the PS3's \"sixaxis\" controller.

Simply said, Descent plays best on PC (along with 99% of the games out there).

Aggressor Prime wrote:Simply said, Descent plays best on PC (along with 99% of the games out there).

Wrong. Most games developed for the PC play best on the PC. Most games developed for a console, play best on that console.

An exception would be old side scroll console games which play just fine on a PC...as long as you have a gamepad similar to the original console to play them with, so they don't really count.

Though unfortunately, half the games out there these days are really crappy ports from consoles.

Just how viable does everyone think it is to create a Descent-like game for a console? The controller seems to be the biggest issue for me.

Personally I don't give a toss on what platform I play on - but if the majority of the market (and the future of gaming) lies on consoles, then any game developer looking at 6dof is going to have to conquer the whole six-axis-of-control problem.

Seriously - how could a developer get around this problem and make a 6DOF game viable?

Heh I played D3 first on a Playstation like controller, and it worked, I had a bit of an impediment, having to stop sliding to fire missiles was one, but it wasn't impossible.

The controller issue is the biggest obstacle for 6DOF gaming in general, it just plain separates the men from the boys. It is not easy to pack all the controls necessary into a control surface be it keyboard, N52, Cyberman, whatever. Believe me I have given it much thought regarding Core Decision, which incidentally will soon be oficially changing its name to Geocore to better suit the game premise and content, it just isn't gonna be easy to make the controls balanced between mouse and stick. We will however find a way to create balance. That is something I know we can offer our players because a competition grade experience will be our main focus, as it should be the focus of any game that expects to have multiplayer replay value.

I could play just fine with an xbox 360 controller, Psion... In fact, I did play the Descent games on my PS2...yeah there were some mild compromises, but IMO all controller issues are moot with motion-sensing controllers. The motion-sensing technology has matured to a useful level, and it's not just on the Wii. In fact, screw the Wii. PS3 is where it's at, it's a sexy beast with power to spare, and the PS3 SIXAXIS controller even has the proper name for Descent games.

For those of you who may not know, the PS3 controller has built-in accelerometers, and can sense both rotational orientation and translational acceleration along all three dimensional axes. That is, you can tip it in any direction, or you can 'punch' in any direction, or combine the two types of motion.

Better yet, current-gen consoles (with the possible exception of the wii) can natively utilize bluetooth accessories, meaning that the flexibility of mouse & Keyboard (among other things) has come to the console.

I hate the PS3 controller. It has accelerometers, sure, but no way to know its position in space, unlike the Wii controller, so you can't use it as a proxy for a real device. On the Wii, the controller becomes whatever it represents: a fishing pole, a tennis racket... on the PS3, it's just another mapping.

Twilight Princess upset me in the same way, by not mapping the Wii remote to Link's sword, but instead using gestures to mean \"swipe sword\". Why bother? I could have done that with the A button.

On the Wii its just another mapping too... And the PS3's controller can sense its position in space with its accelerometer, it'll just measure how long it has been accelerating at X speed and wham, you have positional data.

d3jake wrote:And the PS3's controller can sense its position in space with its accelerometer, it'll just measure how long it has been accelerating at X speed and wham, you have positional data.

true to a certain degree, assumed you calibrated the reference point and rotated state before. though you're measuring relative to the current position, which again relates to the virtual ref base, your relative position to the ref base will shift and rotate through space while you play, which means, that the ref base also shifts and rotates.
that is because of truncation errors in computing and tolerances in the components. depending on the resolution and quality, you will recognize this phenomenon or not.

i guess the topic of this thread also shifts

WarAdvocat wrote:Better yet, current-gen consoles (with the possible exception of the wii) can natively utilize bluetooth accessories, meaning that the flexibility of mouse & Keyboard .

only the Wii and the PS3 actually use bluetooth. I don't think the 360 does.

IIRC, the 360 uses 2.4Ghz RF.

Floyd wrote:

d3jake wrote:And the PS3's controller can sense its position in space with its accelerometer...

true to a certain degree...
your relative position to the ref base will shift and rotate through space while you play, which means, that the ref base also shifts and rotates.
that is because of truncation errors in computing and tolerances in the components...

Floyd is right.

The Wii is a bit better in this regard because it's 'pointer' functions allow you to have limited positional data as well as accelerational data.

I think the weakness with using accelerational controller data for movement in 6DoF games is that it would be difficult to maintain continuous movement. Want a quick temporary slide down, sure, move your controller downward... but what if you want a continuous slide?

I think the Wii controller (nunchuk stick for sliding, wiimote pointer for orientation, buttons for everything else) could work, but I'm not so sure about the PS3 controller. It would end up being almost exactly like using an XBox 360 controller, which I've done and didn't like much.

psionik wrote:The controller issue is the biggest obstacle for 6DOF gaming in general, it just plain separates the men from the boys. It is not easy to pack all the controls necessary into a control surface be it keyboard, N52, Cyberman, whatever. Believe me I have given it much thought regarding Core Decision, which incidentally will soon be oficially changing its name to Geocore to better suit the game premise and content, it just isn't gonna be easy to make the controls balanced between mouse and stick. We will however find a way to create balance. That is something I know we can offer our players because a competition grade experience will be our main focus, as it should be the focus of any game that expects to have multiplayer replay value.

I'll send you my config if you want psionik. Works for both mouse and joy.

Hmm... how to conrol a Pyro on a Wii...

Wiimote pointing for orientation.
Nunchuck gyro positioning for sliding.
Nunchuck thumbstick for accelerating and spinning.
B button for primaries, A button for secondaries.
Left and right D-pad for changing primary, up and down D-pad for changing secondary.
(-) button for main menu, (+) button for Guidebot.
(Z) for afterburner, (C) for converter, (1) and (2) for some other stuff I haven't thought up of yet.

There, easily done! And they're all common controls for a Wii game too!

Well.... I read up finally about interplay.... Scumbags... They should just sell the Descent Idea to someone that will actually run with it.

Strife wrote:Well.... I read up finally about interplay.... Scumbags... They should just sell the Descent Idea to someone that will actually run with it.

Damn right.... but who will?....

Hopefully NOT Ubi$oft!