LCD monitors

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:24 pm

I've got a friend (a gamer) who wants to buy an LCD (budget = $500).
Anyone have any good suggestions?
contrast ratio is the thing to look for right?
(I dont know much of anything about LCDs....so any help/input is appreciated).

thanks!

RM

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:14 pm

Lots of people will say lots of things about this. The main stat you want to look for is the response time on LCDs, which is how fast pixels can change colors. 20ms or better is what to shoot for.

But honestly, just tell your friend to buy one from a brick and mortar store with a good return policy to see if he likes it or not. Things like monitors can be quite subjective.

Admiral LSD · Post by **Admiral LSD** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:30 pm

Three words:

Dead pixel policy.

Make sure the vendor you buy from has a good one.

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:17 am

Any LCD monitor with an HiDys panel (like the prophetview 920's) are good monitors.

I've got a prophetview for gaming and it's serving me superbly...

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:49 am

Don't take response time as a guide!

Lower isn't necessarily better!

The "true" response time is grey-to-grey, transitioning through black AND white to get there. Some "16ms" units blow out to in excess of 30ms when properly measured! These units can have ghosting issues in high-speed gaming environments.

Make sure he takes his favourite fast game to a store and tests the actual model he's going to buy.

Remember too - that many 16ms monitors have a very reduced colour palette as a result. Thus, you should be very familiar with a large photograph, and view it on a monitor. Even better - take a colour test program and run it on the windows desktop. You can be disappointed - believe me.

The advice about dead-pixel replacement is good! Get the policy in writing! Even if it means getting the Store Manager to sign it on behalf of the company.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:13 am

once again, mobi strikes with useless banter of unlimited "so-called" knowledge

JK MObi.

i would steer clear of LCD's for games as the really good ones are what....1000$'s of dollars expensive. <-- correct me if wrong

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:20 am

I agree....but his space is limited so size is an issue.

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:09 am

AceCombat wrote:i would steer clear of LCD's for games as the really good ones are what....1000$'s of dollars expensive. <-- correct me if wrong

Your wrong

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:36 pm

Heh @ Stresstest...

Current LCDs dont work fast enough for me in games, when they can do 120 Hz I will think about getting one. But the faster LCDs these days can run games quite nicely, unless you are totally spoiled by a fast CRT and run non standard resolutions a fast LCD should do the job.

Yeah, the grey to grey time on some of these "16 MS" monitors can actually be as high as 60-80 MS, so beware.

-Krom

Mr. Perfect · Post by **Mr. Perfect** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:09 pm

I have a question about LCDs that I've been meaning to ask. Do LCDs put out the same low-level radiation that CRTs do? I can't remeber where I might have read it, but I seem to recall that they don't.

If there's no radiation, then gaming on one might be better for you after all.

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:04 pm

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:10 pm

Also - remember that LCDs often look like complete crap if moved away from their "native resolution". Pixels on an LCD are fixed and aren't dynamic like a CRT, so "scaling" an LCD panel mostly looks horrible.

For gaming, it is ESSENTIAL you choose a native resolution which your GFx card can produce playable frame rates for! Otherwise you're gonna be scaling the display in 3D mode - and it'll look like - err - crap.

I *still* believe a CRT is the best solution for gaming - and $500 gets you a damn fine CRT - look for models with a short tube, like the Viewsonic GS series.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:24 pm

Mobius wrote:For gaming, it is ESSENTIAL you choose a native resolution which your GFx card can produce playable frame rates for! Otherwise you're gonna be scaling the display in 3D mode - and it'll look like - err - crap.

You can say the same to a limited extent on CRTs. 640x480 looks a helluva lot better on an 19" LCD than a 22" CRT.

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:44 pm

Admiral LSD is right about the pixels. This is really only important in the beginning since 99% of bad pixels are out of the box. It's not very often that they develop over time. I have one here that I take to LANs that has one that recently appeared and I can only guess that it is due to the constant bumps it has suffered. Honestly, you would just take the thing to the store that you bought it from and tell them something was wrong with it and ask for a replacement. Problem/s solved.

Mr. Perfect, I work roughly 10 hours a day and I have to sit in front of a pair of LCDs. Prior to me getting them I used a pair of 17" CRTs and by the time lunch rolled around, you could feel the eye strain. Now with these LCDs I can do that 10 hour day and not have any thing like that remotely. They are a godsend for the eyes.

Mobius wrote:
For gaming, it is ESSENTIAL you choose a native resolution which your GFx card can produce playable frame rates for! Otherwise you're gonna be scaling the display in 3D mode - and it'll look like - err - crap.

This is sooo untrue. My god when will ignorant people keep their mouths shut about things they don't know about!!!

You have "tried" some LCDs in the past as you have said. This is in no way a soapbox for you to stand on and preach from. You and the majority of the people that sit around and say things like this are not even experienced in this whole subject other then what you read in so-called objective and often, opinionated articles posted on web sites through out the web.

The fact of the matter is, there is no substitution for getting in the trenches and actually playing on them first hand. This means that instead of plugging into those articles, you need to consult other gamers that use LCDs currently, and get their experiences of the different units they have tried.

I for one have 6 LCDs here and have been gaming on them since before I lost interest in Descent. I play daily on most occasions, in Halo and UT2K4. And guess what? They play very nicely thank you very much.

Another thing, all of my monitors are 1280x1024 native and I play all games I enjoy @ 800x600. And ya know what? They look awesome. So don't be fooled into thinking that they need to be at native rez.. it's utter horsesh!t

So please shut your pie hole mobi, you need to go play on them and on several model/makes before you start your preaching..

MobiTrollÂ®...

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:50 pm

Games aren't nearly as noticeable as regular desktop apps when it comes to operating at non-standard resolutions. If your monitor is 1024x768, running Windows at 800x600 will DEFINITELY give you eyestrain, but you might like the free pseudo-anti-aliasing when you're playing a game that could really benefit from a lower resolution.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:24 pm

I second Stress' appraisal. My 1280x1024 LCDs scale very clearly to 800x600.

ReadyMan · Post by **ReadyMan** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:17 pm

Bash! good to see you.

So Stress/Bash/et. al. do you recommend any particular model? I'm looking for specifics so I can point him in the right direction.
Vertigo: the prophetview looks great....all the reviews rave about them. He'd have to get that monitor online tho...I havent seen one in any BestBuy/CUSA yet.

I've thought about an LCD, but my Sony E540 21" is amazing. I lug it to LANs with no problem (it's only 10 lbs heavier than a 19 ")....I really cant imagine gaming on another monitor....tho if it died, I'd seriously look at an LCD, especially after some of the input from the serious gamers here.

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:25 pm

Samsung makes excellent LCDs. Avoid Mitsubishi.

bash · Post by **bash** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:32 pm

Heya, Readyperson.

I bought Dell (OEM Samsung) mostly because I got a screaming deal on them (I have three). I haven't really been gaming much so I can't say how happy a hardcore gamer would be. They top out at a refresh of 75Hz. Some folks might find that too low if they're used to high refresh rates like 120Hz. That said, I have been very pleased with them. No dead pixels, low power draw, very thin bezel, onboard speakers/headphone jacks, 4-port USB hub and they twist portrait or landscape. I think the Samsung equivalent is the 19IT or thereabouts.

Top Wop · Post by **Top Wop** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:59 pm

I've got a Samsung 22' LCD and its bitchin'. Forgot the model # though.

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:05 pm

The two I usually bring to the lans are 17" Planar's. They make an incredible LCD IMHO. The other's I dont take out of the house much (cept for this last weekend at Klay's lan)because I dont want to hurt them my precious! 18.1 Dell 1800 FP (Samsung also, like bash's) The 1800FP's have been favorites amoung gamers for some time and get this, they are rated art 30ms.. PWNED!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:56 pm

A LCD with 1600x1200 native would scale exceptionally well to 800x600 (for obvious reasons)

Nitrofox125 · Post by **Nitrofox125** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:59 pm

I use a few Samsung SyncMaster 172N's. They're good and I got 'em for $400 each for "Buying in bulk" for my computer system

(normally $500)

Jeff250 · Post by **Jeff250** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:24 pm

How does refresh rate compare between CRT's and LCD's? I.e., would 60Hz produce the same amount of eye strain on an LCD as a CRT, or is it comparing apples and oranges?

Tetrad · Post by **Tetrad** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:33 pm

Jeff250 wrote:or is it comparing apples and oranges?

Yes.