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 Post subject: MS Sidewinder Precision Pro: DIY Gameport-USB adapter
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:44 am 
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DBB Cadet
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Hi guys,

I just registered here when I found the topics about Grendel's gameport to usb adapter.

10 years ago I wanted this specific JS, and recently I was in a junk shop and found one for $3!! :)

But I need it to work on USB. I found out that this model (based on part no.) shipped with a gameport to usb adapter. I also found out that this adapter is really only a wiring from game port to usb pins, and the JS figures out whether it's plugged into game port or usb and sends data appropriately.

I don't have one of these adapters, and have spent over a week trying to figure out the wiring. I have even found people on the net mentioning what pins are supposedly used (and they are contradictory), but they haven't worked for me. I have even read the patent and that didn't refer to specific pins.

I was hoping one of you with one of these adapters could quickly use a multimeter and find out which pins are used. You guys seem pretty cluey so I probably don't have to tell you how, but you will probably need a female usb adapter connected to nothing so you can get to the pins. Then stick a wire into the gameport pin holes and see what connects up.

Thanks a lot!
Fatal_eXception


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:46 pm 
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Interesting, I did not know that. Explains a lot :)

Good catch w/ the MS adapter, I put a multimeter to it and it really seems to be just a point-to-point connector. To clear that up, we are talking about the MS SideWinder USB adapter, part no. 98427, that fits the MS SideWinder Precision Pro, part no. X03-57540, product id. starting w/ 85791.

This is how it connects:

USB pin 1 (red, Vbus) --> GP pin 1 (5V)
USB pin 2 (white, D-) --> GP pin 14 (BY2)
USB pin 3 (green, D+) --> GP pin 10 (BY1)
USB pin 4 (black, GND) --> GP pin 4 (GND)

USB shield --> GP shield
GP pin 2 (BX1) --> GP pin 7 (BX2)

GP = Gameport. Colors in () are the USB cable colors.

To make an adapter you need a female DB15 connector (preferably w/ a plastic shell) and a USB cable w/ an A connector on one end (the flat connector that plugs into your computer.) Cut the cable so you end w/ a 4-5\" pigtail on the USB A connector. Wire it to the DB15 connector according to the list above.

Edit: corrected according to the posts below.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:19 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Grendel wrote:
Interesting, I did not know that. Explains a lot :)


Glad to help :)

Grendel wrote:
Good catch w/ the MS adapter, I put a multimeter to it and it really seems to be just a point-to-point connector. To clear that up, we are talking about the MS SideWinder USB adapter, part no. 98427, that fits the MS SideWinder Precision Pro, part no. X03-57540, product id. starting w/ 85791.

This is how it connects:

USB pin 1 (red, Vbus) - GP pin 1 (5V)
USB pin 2 (white, D-) - GP pin 14 (BY2)
USB pin 3 (green, D+) - GP pin 10 (BY1)
USB pin 4 (black, GND) - GP pin 3 (GND)

GP = Gameport. Colors in () are the USB cable colors.


Awesome, thanks :) I'll try it in a min.
I had read that the pins were 1, 4, 10, 14, but without saying how they mapped. I guessed that 5v=5v and gnd=gnd (pin 4), leaving only two other options, but it never worked.

Just checking, are you sure GND is pin 3? On my gameport pinouts it says pin 4 is GND, pin 3 is Resistor X-axis.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:39 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Unfortunately no luck so far. I still get the \"Unknown Device\" in device manager, and DeviceFailedEnumeration in usbview. Looks like it's not getting data. I tried a few variations with no luck.

I wonder if I'm getting too much noise on the line. Maybe the pins are dirty or my breadboard is interfering too much. I've never really fiddled with USB through a breadboard so I don't know if this is a common problem or not.

I had soldered up a very quick and dirty gameport->usb based on the previous mappings. That of course didn't work, but do you think that would be cleaner/clean enough if I rewired it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:05 am 
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My bad, you are right -- GP GND is pin 4 (corrected above). Dang GP connector has the numbers written to the right of a pin on the bottom row but to the left on the top row, sorry.

Another thing -- connect the GP & USB shields together as well for proper shielding (don't connect them to GND !) Noise shouldn't be a (big :)) problem, USB is a differential signal and the PP runs on USB 1.1 low speed.

Looking at the adapter again I recognized something odd -- pins 2 (BX1) & 7 (BX2) are populated as well so I did a quick cross check: the adapter shorts these together, probably as the signal for the stick to go USB :) Add a short on the GP connector betw. 2 & 7 as well.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:20 am 
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Grendel wrote:
Looking at the adapter again I recognized something odd -- pins 2 (BX1) & 7 (BX2) are populated as well so I did a quick cross check: the adapter shorts these together, probably as the signal for the stick to go USB :) Add a short on the GP connector betw. 2 & 7 as well.


As it happens I was at a friend's house today and he was able to uncover his own old PP AND usb adapter! It works; I first confirmed the 1, 4, 10, 14 pins were connected to usb, fixed my own adapter and it still didn't work. Then I looked at the connector and noticed the same thing you did, that there were some more but not all pins in the adapter. I started to wonder if the adapter was multiplexing these pins together somehow, as the protocol allows for operation in 2, 3 or 4 bit mode (for extra bandwidth) and the linux driver attempts to operate in 3-bit mode where possible.

But you're right! Short pins 2 and 7, and now I have two PP joysticks and two working adapters! Of course, my friend's one is a bit beaten up and loose, but it might come in useful for spares ;)

So now we have a definite pin mapping:

USB pin 1 (red, Vbus) - GP pin 1 (5V)
USB pin 2 (white, D-) - GP pin 14 (BY2)
USB pin 3 (green, D+) - GP pin 10 (BY1)
USB pin 4 (black, GND) - GP pin 4 (GND)
Short GP pin 2 (BX1) - GP pin 7 (BX2)

GP = Gameport. Colors in () are the USB cable colors.

Thanks a lot! And I hope this will be useful to someone else someday too. In fact I plan to put together all the information I've collected on one page, and probably also wikipedia.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:38 am 
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Just so folks are clear:

There are two \"flavors\" of MS Sidewinder Precision Pro joysticks. They look and feel the same, but you can look on the bottom panel to see which one it is:

1. Product ID starts with \"85791\" - this is one being referred to above. It's natively USB-compatible, and originally came with a Gameport->USB adapter.

2. Product ID starts with \"97462\" - this one is not natively USB-compatible, and will need one of Grendel's adapters to work via USB.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:01 am 
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I own one the of \"85791\" Precision Pro sticks, and I own a number of Microsoft SideWinder Freestyle Pro game pads as well (Part No. X03-57019, Product ID beginning with 85587). The Freestyle Pro is a gameport game pad that shipped with a USB adapter. After reading the posts above, I compared the Freestyle Pro's USB adapter to that of the Precision Pro, and they are identical. Both are marked Part No. 98427 and are externally identical. So that might be another way to get one of the USB adapters if you are not willing to roll your own.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Foil wrote:
2. Product ID starts with "97462" - this one is not natively USB-compatible, and will need one of Grendel's adapters to work via USB.

Well, technically that's not a Precision Pro, it's a SideWinder 3D Pro Plus (mine is labeled as that on the bottom) ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:43 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Hey, glad someone posted this, was having some trouble with my stick. Just wanted to clarify something. What is the GP shield? Is it the outside of the header? I was going to use an old internal pinout DB15 and convert it to a USB pinout so it'll look cleaner. Any help would be appreciated. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:07 pm 
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The GamePort shield is the outer metal shell of the DB15 connector. If you use a Slot bracket w/ a DB15 connector, on mine the shield is connected to GP pin 5 (also GND). Open the connector to check if it's connected.

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:24 am 
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Just be aware that if you forget or someone using your computer is unaware, connecting a different gameport joystick to the changed port may potentially cause damage to your computer and/or the joystick.

I had an idea to make the USB mode connection (pin 2 to 7) inside the joystick, then cut off the gameport connector and wire in a usb connector. Then the joystick is always USB, which is fine with me, and clean.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:11 am 
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Yeah, wiring up a PPro with a USB only cord would work nicely I bet, especially if you are like me and have a couple worn out PPro2 sticks around to pull the USB cord off from...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:20 pm 
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Come to think of it, there'd be no need to open the joystick and make the connection internally - you'd just wire it up inside the USB connector shell. If you had a shell. Or you could just wire it up to a USB connector cut from something else.

If you used the whole length of an existing usb cord ie the PPro2, you could use this to double the length of the cable.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:23 am 
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Eh, no one touches my computer but me. Besides, I don't think it would damage my system and I doubt it would hurt the other device. These things are more robust than people give them credit for. A question I had though. When I was looking for the adapters, I found someone who said the adapter had to be plugged into the joystick before plugging it in to the computer for it to work. It doesn't really make sense to me why that would be the case, but can anyone else confirm that? Might make me change my plan.

Edit: One other thing, someone mentioned a USB shell, do you know where I can buy those? I've got something I need to put a new end on and I've searched all over for them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Dont mean to necrothread, but I registered here because I have this very same issue.

(no gameport support in WIndows 7)

I have a force feedback pro

Part No. 96755
PID: 66883-579-7756996-00000


and also a precision pro

What kind of an adapter do I need to make it work in Windows 7 x64?

According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SideWinder

only the Microsoft SideWinder Precision Pro 2.0 works with the usb adapter, everything else needs \"A user-made adapter\" - this i ASSUME is Grendel's adapter: http://web.archive.org/web/200608222204 ... /3dpro.htm
-Yes?

Is grendel's the only adapter that's possible for Force Feedback pro?

Does anyone have a mirror of the schematics?

Will it work in Win7 x64?

What about the other numerous adapters:
http://www.usbgear.com/USBG-232MINI.html


THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:31 pm 
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Hey ya Kohan69, welcome.

I am not the expert on this subject.
I can tell you the other usb adpaters out there
don't even give you the 3dPro digital. They basiaclly give the analog only (4 way rather than 8 way hat, etc.
From what I understand based on the first post here http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?t=15526
the adapter works for the joysticks, but doesn't give you the ForceFeedback.

If you want to build one yourself have it, always good fun. If not look here http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?t=16813

Good luck


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:47 pm 
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FYI gameport forcefeedback

M$ could not aquire I-Force by Immersion in an attempted buyout which at the time used input from the gameport and force output using the serial port. So M$ create a forcefeedback using input via the Midi controller in the gameport thus having only the need for one connector via their game profiler software until they moved to usb and bypassed the whole debacle.

M$ FF Gameport on a grendle usb adapter will function as a joystick only

_________________

I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:53 pm 
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Thanks for the repiies!! I'll keep a lookout for a Force2 then!

I'll be back here when I'll want to modernize my DESCENT experience, but back to SHATTERED HORIZON for now :-D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:26 am 
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Hello to all, I'm new here, and I have to tell I'm not really a Descent player, but I've found this thread and I'm in a similar situation.

My english is not very good, and I'm afraid to be mistaken by abbreviations, so I prefer to ask rather than doing something wrong.

I own a Sid 3D Pro Plus, serial 97462, so if I have well understood, I won't get it working with a simple passive db15 to usb (like this: http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00000480.html) converter right? Because the connections are not the good one that's it?

I could get from someone living near home an old Thrustmaster Top Gun (not the Fox 2 Pro, just Top Gun, the '97 if I remember well), for less than 5$, so my second question is: does anyone here knows if I could use this kind of stick with a simple converter like the one in the link, or would I have to make another home-made converter, which I guess will be different than the one for the Sidewinder.

Thank you very much for answers, and already thank you Grendel for the explanations on the converter ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:56 am 
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My part number on my sidewinder is 63545 - Which one is that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:52 pm 
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That's a SideWinder 3D Pro. Needs a custom USB converter like this one.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:30 pm 
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And can you believe that 'ole Verran Eventide bought up the last two?!?!?!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:45 pm 
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actually I still have 2 available

I may be back to playing again in a week or two as well. My recovery has certainly not gone as planed, but I am getting there


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:50 pm 
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I have a gameport coming in and when I find out that it doesn't work I may hit you up for one of those Sickone - What are they going for now?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:31 pm 
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$37 including shipping, etc.
Basically just my cost


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:51 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Sickone wrote:
$37 including shipping, etc.
Basically just my cost


Do you have any left? I just got a Sidewinder off ebay and need the adapter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:54 am 
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MIA Host/Admin
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Ellisc,

The last couple are curretly promised out.
One has said the funds will be here tomorrow at the latest. The other asked if I still had one, he wanted it, but now now owrd for two days.

I will send meesags to both - if they are lagging and not making it happen, can get you one of them.
Give me a day or two.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:55 am 
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Sickone wrote:
Ellisc,

The last couple are curretly promised out.
One has said the funds will be here tomorrow at the latest. The other asked if I still had one, he wanted it, but now now owrd for two days.

I will send meesags to both - if they are lagging and not making it happen, can get you one of them.
Give me a day or two.


Roger that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:30 am 
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MIA Host/Admin
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Ellisc - send me a provate message.
I'll give the instructions etc.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:34 am 
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DBB Cadet
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Sickone wrote:
Ellisc - send me a provate message.
I'll give the instructions etc.


Done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:59 am 
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The adapter circuit given in this thread has been tested and shown to work with the Logitech WingMan Gamepad Extreme (part number:863163-0000) as well:

http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?t=17786


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 Post subject: Re: MS Sidewinder Precision Pro: DIY Gameport-USB adapter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:31 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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I am sooo stoked I found this forum. Sidewinder 3D Pro Lives!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: MS Sidewinder Precision Pro: DIY Gameport-USB adapter
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Hope someone is monitoring this topic because I know the last post was in like 2010. I have a ms pp with the Belkin adapter. I am a noob and was wondering if anyone could tell me step by step how to connect pins 2 and 7. I have absolutely no clue how I could do this. Pictures would help. :D


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