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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:02 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Thanks Grendel for all the work you and everyone else put in to this project. I got one put together like the one you have in post #26. It only took about an hour and works like a champ. Gonna try one like wolfman's in the near future. Sure is nice to have my 3D Pro back in Windows 7 and Battlefield 2. Thanks Again!!!! :D :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:08 pm 
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wow i never realised they removed support in Vista, wtf.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:55 pm 
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roid wrote:
i just noticed this video on Makezine

Circuit Skills: Circuit Board Etching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWnfnt2rNO0

They basically show you howto etch your own circuit boards. It seems quite easy.

The kit (2 solutions and 2 pre-coated circuit boards) is $46.95 USD from Jameco.com
And extra pre-coated circuit boards are $4.95 USD each.

Assuming the solution in the kit lasts,
- To be below the cost of the breadboard ($13.44) you'd need to make 5 of them ($12.36 each).
- You could print out 13 boards for $101 ($7.80 each)
- Or 33 boards for $200 ($6.07 each)

Though you would still need to drill the holes, and buy & insert the electronics which would be $28.52 per board (not including price of etched board).
If you made 5 boards, the cost would be comparible to the original breadboard version. The etched board would look more professional, would probably be more robust, but would be harder to construct/assemble.
I guess it would be something someone would do if they knew what they were doing, and were making a few of them.

not worth the effort. the solution fades quickly. depending on the type of solution, you may have to rise the temperature of the solution to work (properly). you already mentioned the drilling. you need extra space to place that stuff to not run it over accidently etc. you have to take the solutions to professional toxic waste disposal. you have extra equipment lying around (some of it contaminated after use), all that goes into the equation.
if double sided, the most disgusting and time consuming part is the connecting of the pads from the upper and lower layer.
find a local PCB maker and pay these 5-10% more, but have it done when it arrives in the mail, with solder resist and tinned pads, edges milled - double sided, if necessary (upper and lower pads are already connected). and it saves your time. you can ask for a quantity rebate too.
afterall, everything you get additionally adds up to about the same price as if you buy it, but you buy without worries :)


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 Post subject: Link is broken
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:40 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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The link posted by Grendel at post # 26 is broken, file \"3DPvertR3_2.zip\". Please, can this be corrected? Thank you. :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Ack. I sent an email to the site owner. Meanwhile, anyone who needs the file: send me a PM w/ your email address, I'll send it to you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:28 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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I happened across this project after picking up the teensy just for use as a dev board, and now my trigger finger's itching! It'll be nice to finally bring the old 3dpro back out of retirement.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:30 pm 
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just think of all the closets and attics and basements people are going through to find their 3dpros and dust them off after using this tjread as a guide.... Imagine if one of our resident mechwarrior nuggets was to crosspost this thread in the various forums in their communities

_________________

I seem to have a better workout dodging your stupidity than attempting to grasp the weight of your intelligence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:59 pm 
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I started a Google Code project for the converter. The hex image is hosted there now. I'll add content as time permits. I'll also change the post on the 1st page as soon RC fixes the boards database..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:00 am 
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I don't know if this helps at all, but my Precision Pro actually came with a USB adapter in the box. It has what I'm guessing is a Microsoft part number stamped into it, 98427.

Image

It's awfully small, so it might be simpler to make then what you're building. It doesn't even show up as a device if plugged in by itself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:23 am 
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It's a passive part (just a few wires in it) that only works w/ the Precision Pro (part no. X03-57540, product id. starting w/ 85791.) There's a discussion about it here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Ah, ok. Things can't be that simple, huh? :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:13 am 
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Work with Flight Simulator X in Windows 7 64?

Thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Should. Y/w.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Hi All,

Just got the final parts to build one of these myself. Made up the boards as per this image:
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac22 ... _0083x.jpg

Using Windows 7 x64. I can load the Blink slow and Blink fast to the Teensy 2.0 no problem. When I load 3DProR3.hex the led just flashes continuously (fast).
Ive tried with and without a SW 3d Pro connected, any ideas?


Two differences with my build afaik:
- I used a bare DB15 Female socket and soldered the wires too it, connected them in a line as per the numbers (1,2,3,4,7,10,13,14) in the diagram above
- I broke a pin in the small bridging socket on the breadboard, in the images its on the far left, position E30.. I connected F30 to C30 instead, ok I assume?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:36 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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nice forum guys :)

/me fellow oldskool hardkore descenter.

i just got a brand spankin new, still in sealed box, 3d pro from ebay. gotta love the place. figured it was gonna be a task to get it workin in win7, but i didnt care.

long story short, i found this adapter:
http://www.pccables.com/cgi-bin/orders6 ... com&rcode=
Part No 70608
Description USB to Gameport Manhatan 168199 Compatible

had good reviews on amazon, people say it works good. so i bought it. and it does work! just plugged it to my sw3dp to my win7x64 macbook pro, and poof, drivers installed.

few probs tho. tried all combinations of switch settings on adapter and bottom of sw. hat switch left dont wanna work (up/down/right works). base buttons dont work, but i dont care. what is the big prob is z-axis/twist/rudder works in windows settings, but it dont work in either descent or forsaken. forsaken recoginizes there is a third axis, but it dont do nothin when i twist.

ill post again if i find a fix.

-moto


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:57 am 
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Presumably it doesnt work fully as the SW3dPro used Midi functions to get the full functionality (IRC) and that adapter explicitly states it doesnt support such functionality.

Surprised it worked at all though, good feedback!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:58 pm 
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The SW3DP does work w/ certain game port adapters. It will run in analog emulation mode only tho. Full functionality is only possible w/ a native game port and W98/95/NT/XP or the 3DP-Vert USB converter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Quick question. Getting ready to build this on a breadboard.

I looked at these two circuits posted by Grendel and noticed a difference in the two.

On the first one IMG_0553 pin 3 on the 15pin connector is connected to B4 on the Teensy (obviously going through the resistor). Pin 13 on the 15 pin goes to B5 on the Teensy.

On the second image below (IMG_0083x) pin 3 of the 15 pin goes to B5 on the Teensy. Pin 13 of the 15 pin goes to B4 on the Teensy.

I am curious which is correct? Or if maybe a software change occurred which needed that change.

p.s. I did notice rhulasi asked about this difference in the two design images, but I didn't see an answer. It looks like switching these two would only effect the X and Y axis being switched from one design to the other.

The schematic wolfmanjm posted looks to follow the earlier design posted on Oct 2nd by Grendel. But the latter posting by Grendel on Oct 23rd looks to have the sources to B4 and B5 switched.

Minor in the grand scheme. I can build it one way and just switch the two wires if I need to, but was curious which design is right.

Image


Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:37 pm 
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The X & Y lines are triggered at the same time to signal the stick to send data -- doesn't matter what way round they are connected. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Thanks for the quick feedback. Going to build one tonight or tomorrow. Will post the results when I do!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Built mine tonight and it worked great!

Attached a picture of the board. I went with a cheaper PCB board and soldered everything. Since the Teensy 2.0's are out of stock right now from Pjrc, I socketed mine until I can get another couple.

Going this route keeps the cost down pretty cheap. I had everything needed except the 15 pin connector. Ordered that from Jameco.

Here is a breakdown of the parts if doing my method.

Teensy $18.00

Protoboard = $5.49

2.2K Resistor 100 pack $2.00

D-sub 15pin Female = $0.79

.001 uF Capacitor 10 pack = $0.60

Connector pins quantity of 2 $0.59 each total $1.18

Total before shipping is $28.06

I put a quantity of two of the header pins so the Jameco order would be over $10 (their minimum)

If you don't mind soldering this is a pretty cheap way to make one. The 15pin d-sub take a little \"pin tweaking\" to get the pins to line up with the standard board spacing, but it isn't too hard.

I didn't look, but Jameco might have a project box to house this board, or they do have many other boards that would go with a project box.

You can also save your self some time and get the teensy with pins. You save a dollar or so doing it yourself, but if you want to minimize your soldering, get the teensy with pins for $3 more, and remove the connector pins from your order. Course your Jameco order will be below $10 so you might want to get extra 15 pin d-subs, or anything else you might need.

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Nice work!

I know a few Descent Rangers that are using that Manhattan usb converter and seem to be happy with it and the sidewinder.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:40 pm 
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This is a dead thread, time to unsticky it.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:14 am 
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KoolBear wrote:
This is a dead thread, time to unsticky it.


KB,

With all due respect, this thread should stay stickied. Grendel's design is the only one which provides full functionality (all other adapters are limited to emulation mode), so this is a valuable resource.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Since this is pretty much the hub of the converters documentation it shall stay sticky. If you disagree you can PM me or discuss it in the mod section.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:57 pm 
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Just snagged a New In The Box (Sealed) 3d pro off ebay.

Grendel, the teensy that you refer to http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy_pins.html is out of stock. Can the teensy++2.0 work?


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:04 am 
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Yes, but the firmware needs to be adapted to the ++ 2.0. I think I put provisions for that chip into it, needs testing tho. I do have a v1 ++ board, have to check that tomorrow at work. I could try to get it going on that board, if time permits.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:48 am 
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I've ordered the ++2.0 and hope to have it by next week.

Is there any advantage to using the Teensy over a 3dpvert r2 other than the ease of programming? Is there a poll rate, power consumption advantage of any sort?


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:40 pm 
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The Teensy based converter does have a higher poll rate and less latency (USB 2.0 vs. 1.1). The Teensy ++ board I have is v1, will take it home and poke at it.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Ok. Did a quick jab at the code w/ my Teensy++ v1.0 -- seems to work fine, needs some more serious testing tho.

For the hardware, I just took the Teensy 2.0 prototype, pulled the board, added a 2nd small breadboard, added the ++, and connected the two. The firmware uses the same ports -- B4/5 and D0-3.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:52 am 
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I should be receiving the 3d pro tomorrow and the Teensy should arrive on Friday.

Considering the prospective availability of the Teensy 2.0, it appears as though the future of the 3dpvert will be reliant on the ++2.0

Did you have to alter the firmware any to get it to load on the ++? Is there any sacrifice to using the AT90USB1286 instead of the ATMEGA32U4?


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Wasp wrote:
Did you have to alter the firmware any to get it to load on the ++?

Yes, the firmware needs code specific to the MCU (mostly initialisation). The current version (not publicly available yet) does support all four Teensy boards (1.0, 2.0, ++ 1.0, ++ 2.0) but needs to be recompiled for each.

Wasp wrote:
Is there any sacrifice to using the AT90USB1286 instead of the ATMEGA32U4?

Just the price & size of the board. The AVR core and the USB module are equal in capabilities from the firmware point of view. Technically the 32U4 is already a lot more MCU than really necessary, the 1286 even more so. Many things could be done w/ these... (WingMan support anyone ?) :)

If you PM me your email address I'll send you the current firmware image for the Teensy++ 2.0

Edit: actually, I may be able to send you a PM w/ the code attached. I'll try that in the evening.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:47 pm 
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Ok, can't add attachments to PMs. Let's see if I can attach it here. ... Nope, ".hex extensions are not allowed". Wonder what is allowed... Fallback to plan A -- you'll need to send me your email address via PM.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:47 pm 
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PM with email addy sent.

I received the 3d pro yesterday, I expect to have the teensy on Friday. I'll get working on it the moment it arrives and post an update.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:25 pm 
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It appears as though the teensy is programming ok, but afterwards, nothing detected. Not even the "USB Input Device" which was seen when programming. Windoze 7 (64)

Code:
21:11:39: Teensy Loader 1.06, begin program
21:11:39: File "3DPro1286.hex". 3710 bytes, 3% used
21:11:39: Listening for remote control on port 3149
21:11:39: initialized, showing main window
21:11:39: HID/win32:   got attrib
21:11:39: HID/win32:     vid = 0x16C0
21:11:39: HID/win32:     pid = 0x0478
21:11:39: HID/win32:     usage_page = 0xFF9C
21:11:39: HID/win32:     usage      = 0x001C
21:11:39: Device came online, code_size = 130048
21:11:39: File "3DPro1286.hex". 3710 bytes, 3% used
21:11:39: HID/win32: HidD_GetPreparsedData ok, device still online :-)
21:11:42: Open File event
21:11:43: File "3DPro1286.hex". 3710 bytes, 3% used
21:11:52: Verbose Info event
21:12:29: Program event
21:12:29: File "3DPro1286.hex". 3710 bytes, 3% used
21:12:29: Error: can't open file 'C:\Users\xxxx\Desktop\3DP-Vert\3DPro1286.elf' (error 11499998273339394: the system cannot find the file specified.)
21:12:29: Code size from .elf file = 0
21:12:29: begin operation
21:12:29: flash, block=0, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=1, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=2, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=3, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=4, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=5, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=6, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=7, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=8, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=9, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=10, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=11, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=12, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=13, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: flash, block=14, bs=256, auto=0
21:12:29: end operation
21:12:29: redraw timer set, image 12 to show for 1500 ms
21:12:31: redraw, image 10


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:03 am 
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Wasp wrote:
It appears as though the teensy is programming ok, but afterwards, nothing detected. Not even the "USB Input Device" which was seen when programming. Windoze 7 (64)

Correct -- as long you don't have a supported joystick connected. The software will not enumerate as a device w/o first detecting and initializing a joystick. While it's waiting for a stick the LED should flash at about 2Hz.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:22 am 
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The package that the teensy came in has a label "Teensy 2.0 ATMEGA32U4 Chip". It's definately a ++, but no way to tell what chip is on it as the writing on the chip itself is too dark to read.... After further examination, I can see that it is a 90USB1286.

When the stick is not connected, the Teensy blinks constantly...When I connect the JS, the Teensy stops blinking after about 3 blinks. If I disconnect the USB from the computer and reconnect, it blinks a few times and stops. If I disconnect the JS, the Teensy does not resume blinking like it did prior to connecting. I'm going to try it on a XP 32bit ma chine and see what happens.

Tried programming and testing on xp 32bit with same results. I programmed the sample fast / slow flash hex and Teensy seems to respond correctly to that so i'm guessing that the Chip is ok. btw, are those 1/8 watt resistors on your breadboard?


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:19 pm 
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Right, the Teensy 2.0 is based on the 32U4, the larger Teensy++ 2.0 on the 90USB1286 -- probably just a packaging issue..

Hm, your description indicates that the firmware does detect the joystick and now should attach to USB. That's a bit confusing since the 646 and 1286 chips have the same USB module (actually the only difference betw. these chips should be the amount of memory) and I would expect that part to work just fine. I'll go double check the code and the chip manual.

Edit: I think I found the problem, the USB clock prescaler value in the PLLCSR register needs to be different for the 1286 chip (thanks Atmel...) Sent a new hex image.


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:58 pm 
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Its now recognized in control panel. So far, it looks like everything is functioning normally. The Teensy 2.0++ has a very rapid and very dim blink while the JS is connected. Disconnecting the JS results in a bright blinking Teensy...reconnecting the JS results in the fast and dim blink. Appears very normal to this layman's eyes.

I've tested multiple button presses with simultaneous hat and stick movements and can see no problem whatsoever. I'll do some gaming with it shortly. I'm curious if that increased poll rate is noticable.

I'm very grateful for all your effort and continued support. Having this adapter along with a brand new 3DPro is like heaven to this old gamer.

I'll chime in with some photos when I get it stuffed into a project box.

Thanks again, you guys really rock!


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 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:22 am 
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3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
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Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4086
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
Glad it works, enjoy ! :)

Yes, the dim LED flashing is normal. The code will very briefly flash the LED every time a data packet is send out. Since the data is only send if the values are different from the last set sent, the LED behavior can be quite erratic.


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