Phone system

[woodchip]

I have a single phone line with 2 outlets. I have a regular phone on one and a a dual detecting (tells if phone call is regular or fax)fax machine. Problem is when I get a regular phone call the caller (or myself if I pick up the regular phone) hear a high pitch fax squeal noise. Outside callers just hang up and I get no messages. Any ideas on how to fix this?

[CDN_Merlin]

I'd suggest unplugging the phone that has the fax feature and see if that helps. Then start with troubleshooting why it is the cause. Maybe it's not setup correctly.

[Spidey]

Unless the FAX machine is in use when you try to use the regular phone, sounds like the FAX is defective. You should have no sound other than the dial tone on the line.

Now, if the FAX is in use when you try to use the regular phone, you will get that noise, and this cannot be avoided.

[Foil]

Spidey, he's talking about incoming calls.

woodchip, your fax machine is producing that 'squeal' because it's answering and trying to detect whether there's a fax on the other end.

I don't think you're going to find a way around it if you insist on using the same line for both.

[Gekko71]

I don't think you're going to find a way around it if you insist on using the same line for both.

X2. I've never been a fan of combining fax and phone lines as I've never seen a setup that worked 100% of the time (God knows I've tried - there's always a tradeoff somewhere. )

I chucked the fax ages ago and do it all by email now.

[Ryujin]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004 ... oh_product works for me. I don't do a lot of voice or faxing so I'm not the best tester but so far I've received faxes and phone calls fine.

[BUBBALOU]

disable the auto detect feature on the second phone or better yet set the fax to \"FAX ONLY\" and 6 Rings

not that hard

better yet post the model number of the part in question

also is there an alarm system on the line??

or are you using a 'Ringmaster' 'Distinctive Ring'

10+ years of working with phone systems and phone service dsl and T1/T3's, this tends to be more of a result of the owner not actually reading the instructions.. :p

[Foil]

Ryu, that switch is fine for handling multiple lines or switching to fax mode on the fly... but it won't prevent a fax machine from sounding the tone/squeal to incoming callers.

Bubba, turning off the auto-detect just defeats the purpose.

Again guys, woodchip is trying to have a single line which somehow knows what incoming calls are before answering (so faxes get answered with a fax-detect tone, but humans don't). There's just no way to do that, AFAIK.

[Canuck]

Distinctive ring detect on faxes is supposed to prevent this. Please post back the make and model of the fax machine so I can read the destructions. Does your phone line use distinctive ring?

[TechPro]

You know, he could \"fix\" the problem by simply setting the Fax to wait longer (more rings) before it picks up the line.

Simple. Easy peasy.

This way is the \"standard\" way to setup up dual voice/fax lines back in the days when using a fax was at it's height. Nowadays, since using a traditional fix is so \"old school\" ... these kinds of setups are becoming a \"lost art\" so to speak. (Not to say setting up a Fax was ever really much of an \"art\" ... actually it never really was an art .... but you guys get the idea.)

[BUBBALOU]

Bubba, turning off the auto-detect just defeats the purpose.

Read carefully next time

You know, he could "fix" the problem by simply setting the Fax to wait longer (more rings) before it picks up the line.

Not on certain fax machines(usually the ones with a handset)

Their default setting is to answer all incoming calls... if it is a fax it sends it to the fax queue if it's a voice call it rings the handset/

These are also the same fax machines were you can use a feature called "Fax Transfer" where if you pick up the call and determine it is a fax you press "*9,or *98,or *99" and the fax goes into answer mode and you hang up your extension. This is because the fax machine is always monitoring the line 24/7(standard feature on almost every Panasonic)


FAX ONLY (what you should set it to)
VOICE ONLY
FAX AND VOICE (Default - fax acts as a gatekeeper screens EVERY CALL)

Most people usually just turn off "Auto Answer" because reading the instruction manual is too complicated. This is completely different then what is mentioned above and in my first post

[Foil]

or are you using a 'Ringmaster' 'Distinctive Ring'

Distinctive ring detect on faxes is supposed to prevent this.

'Distinctive Ring' is only for multiple lines (using a different ring for calls to fax line), I believe. It would work, though.

[BUBBALOU]

'Distinctive Ring' is only for multiple lines (using a different ring for calls to fax line), I believe. It would work, though.

Please........stop posting misinformation

Actual Line (Standard Ring Pattern A) Single
Ringmaster I (Distinctive Ring Pattern B) Double
Ringmaster II (Distinctive Ring Pattern C/D) Triple

3 telephone numbers Inbound to 1 Physical Line (outbound is only the Main Line)

Would you like me to post what it actually looks like programmed on a Telephone account.... I do this in meh sleep

[Foil]

Exactly. My apologies, my choice of terminology was poor; I shouldn't have said multiple \"lines\" when I meant to refer to multiple inbound numbers.

Of course, Distinctive Ring is still not going to work for Woodchip if he insists on using the same number & line for both voice and fax.

[BUBBALOU]

Of course, Distinctive Ring is still not going to work for Woodchip if he insists on using the same number & line for both voice and fax.

Distinctive Ring/Ringmaster would work with 1 Physical line if

1 He has the service programmed to his line... Which we still do not know if he does
2 Gave out Virtual Number as his "FAX Number"
3 Programmed his Fax Machine act as "FAX ONLY"
4 Set Fax to answer only on Ring Pattern B (dbl Ring)
5 if he has call waiting and he knows the difference between 1 beep(main Line) and 2 Beeps (dist ring line) when to pick up and how to make the fax "WAKE UP"
6 if he has DSL on his line did he not include a Line filter for the fax machine, since it will always see it as a data call......

[Spidey]

Foil, I have a FAX machine and a phone on one line at work…and the FAX machine does not make any noise while detecting an incoming FAX.

And, I was giving Woody the benefit of the doubt, that he has it set up correct.

[TechPro]

And he can still get around his problem by simply setting the fax machine to wait longer (for more rings) before it answers. All he has to do is simply answer the phone before the fax does.

Still easy peasy.

[Spidey]

But if you notice…he said “his callers are not leaving messages”…

The machine that detects the call (Voice/FAX) must pick up the line first.

[woodchip]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. My fax machine is a Toshiba 3600 and is only about 20 years old. Still, it works and more importantly it is a thermo fax so I don't have to worry about ink cartridges. Have to see if I still have the manual and if I find it I'll have to try some of your ideas. Spidey, I have no idea if I have it set up right. All I was worried about was receiving faxes which it handles quite well.

If the fax machine is defective then I need to replace it. Any ideas for a thermo fax machine that I can hook up to a computor, from which I can send documents via the computer? I have a number of forms and MS word document templets that I use for the business stored on the comp.

[Spidey]

It’s probably not defective…

If it has a detect function, but won’t detect in silence (no handshake) while detecting a FAX, it probably is designed only for dedicated FAX lines. And definitely won’t work with a phone connected to the line. (not without a FAX/Phone switch anyway)

If the machine has a phone jack (output) try putting the extension (regular phone) there instead of the line.

You are “always” going to get that “noise” on the line, when a FAX is being received or sent. (if the phone is on the line, not the output from the machine)

[Spidey]

Your setup should look like this…



The FAX should be set to AUTO DETECT
The Phone/Answering Machine should be set to pick up after the FAX machine.

If a phone or other device picks up the line, this can cause the detect system to not work properly.

If this setup does not work, and it still tries to “handshake” when it picks up, you can try some of the other workarounds…but you will lose functionality. IE: you will miss messages, or FAXES.

The machine should not try to “handshake” while detecting a call, if it does, it will never be any good on a shared line.

[Canuck]

Doubt that beasty has distinctive ring so you can tackle this in several ways using a combination of answers. The switch can work but may interfere with the DSL equipment... who knows. I like to buy into quality product that works and has support. In your situation subscribe to distinctive ring for your Fax and place one of these units on the line;
http://www.faxswitch.com/sr.html

They have been around for a while and build great product that works well. When you hear the patterned ring for a fax you know not to pick it up. Also setting the fax to manual or more rings is an low cost option as mentioned. I used to add diacs across the line so that when my modem or fax seized the line it wouldn't allow other extensions to connect.

Hope this helps.

[BUBBALOU]

how about you turn off the old micro tape answering machine on that fax machine you have there.... buddy

I do my faxing via a program and a printer... email it to me.. woof!

[woodchip]

Spidey, no output jack for attaching main phone. Now I am able to set the ring delay to 25 seconds. Having done so I test called my number via my cell phone and got no squeal sound. Now I have to see what happens when I get a fax and secondly, if I can set the main phones (not fax phone) to answer with message in under 25 secs and how that works.

Hmm on 2nd thought would the main phones answering message kill the incoming fax?

[TechPro]

Yes. Very likely, because they would interrupt the receiving call.

[Spidey]

No output jack on the machine…but you said it was a “detecting” machine…does it have a handset on the machine?

If it has a handset on the machine, that’s probably the only switching the machine will do…fax/phone (to the handset).

At that point the only option is a workaround…

1. Set the fax to pick up late…..lose faxes

2. Phone/ Fax switch, and I’m pretty sure you can get one that doesn’t require you also subscribe to Distinctive Ring.

Phone/Fax switches are hit and miss at best.

But, I have had systems with Fax machines & Phones working together using a switch…but the system I use now…the Fax Machine does the switching, and it works just fine. (silent detection)

The only problem with “silent” detecting” is when the incoming Fax is looking for a handshake and doesn’t hear one…then the thing fails.

This happens when the sender is using “manual” mode to send, and all you do is tell people to use auto send mode. If the sender has the hook up waiting for the handshake, they won’t hear one, and won’t press the “send” button, because they think there is no Fax machine on the line. (way old school)

[BUBBALOU]

on an average it's 6 seconds per ring

[woodchip]

Well, with the delayed ring, my main phone answering message does kick on. So good so far. Now I have to have a fax sent and see what happens.