I just got a used P4 1.7ghz computer, need some help?

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:45 am

My father bought a new computer and sent me his old one. When I opened up the box, I found that all of the IDE devices had been detached, and that there was no HDD installed. Further, the HSF was missing.

SO, I set to work, reseated the RAM, and the PCI cards, installed a Hard Drive, chucked the 56K modem and the tv tuner card.

First problem was that whoever had worked on it had apparently removed the HSF. No big deal, I took apart a thermaltake cooler I had and Acecombatted it on (Yes, I used cable ties).

Then the hard drive...the slide rail needed to seat the hdd in the cage is apparently missing, so I said to myself, Self, I don't need a floppy drive, and I pulled the floppy out and used the rail from that.

SO now I have what appears to be a working computer. I fire it up, it seems to be working fine, testing memory and detecting the IDE devices but then I get an error message:

Floppy Disk(s) fail (40)
CMOS checksum error. Defaults Loaded

and the computer is locked up tight. So I restart, try to hit <del> to enter setup, and nothing happens, it proceeds through the sequence and then locks. I re-attach the floppy drive, no joy, same error. I'm thinking maybe the Keyboard isn't attached correctly, so I switch PS2 ports, and regardless of which PS2 it's in, it lights up and acts like it is being properly detected.

I use the cmos reset jumper, try again, no luck.

Any suggestions?

I know the guy my dad had working on this thing was a skeevy mofo. He offered to "scrap the old computer for free", so he obviously wanted to rebuild it and sell it himself. Is it possible he booby-trapped it somehow? I've looked around and can't find many Socket 423 mobos, and none in the micro-atx form factor this case would require...

Is it possible maybe that he pulled the processor, or somehow damaged it? Or would I not even get that far if this were the case?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:27 am

your IDE cables might be installed in reverse.

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:31 am

lol@"acecombatted it on" heh.

Anywho...The CMOS checksum error sets off a red flag in my mind. Look on the mobo, try to find the reset CMOS jumper, jumper it for a good minute or so, see if that checksum error goes away, if not, remove the battery from the board and jumper the pins for same period of time.

If I had to guess, CMOS is set up funky. Possibly the guy who was working on it b4 screwed it up. I have had my own computer hard lock on incorrect CMOS settings.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:33 am

I have primary IDE on the HDD, only one device
Secondary IDE on the CD ROM & DVD

I already did the jumper thing, and the battery thing

I'll re-do it again just in case, since I know it wasn't for a whole minute.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:21 pm

OK no dice...

So as I said, HDD is in IDE1 (red connector on mobo)
CD's are in IDE2 (black connector on mobo)

Does that seem right? Just for sh!ts and giggles I'm goin to swap 'em and see what happens.

But why can't I enter the BIOS before it gets that far?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sat May 22, 2004 12:44 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:First problem was that whoever had worked on it had apparently removed the HSF. No big deal, I took apart a thermaltake cooler I had and Acecombatted it on (Yes, I used cable ties).

HEY HEY!! I claim copyrights to my name for computer mods

WarAdvocat wrote:Then the hard drive...the slide rail needed to seat the hdd in the cage is apparently missing, so I said to myself, Self, I don't need a floppy drive, and I pulled the floppy out and used the rail from that.

you should leave the floppy in. most older BIOS require a Floppy Drive.

WarAdvocat wrote:SO now I have what appears to be a working computer. I fire it up, it seems to be working fine, testing memory and detecting the IDE devices but then I get an error message:

Floppy Disk(s) fail (40)
CMOS checksum error. Defaults Loaded

floppy may be bad or the onboard Floppy Disk Controller may be bad. check the Floppy cable if it is not keyed only to fit one way, Floppy drive light will remain on if floppy cable is backwards.

BIOS Chip is simply resetting itself in most cases when someone has used the jumper to clear it previously and never booted the machine to reset to default values. *SEE NEXT MESSAGE ON BIOS ASWELL*

WarAdvocat wrote: I'm thinking maybe the Keyboard isn't attached correctly, so I switch PS2 ports, and regardless of which PS2 it's in, it lights up and acts like it is being properly detected.

is this a tower or a desktop system? PS/2 is arranged like this: for a tower, the keyboard is going to be Left side, and Mouse is going to be on the Right side. for a dekstop, KB on the Bottom and mouse on Top.

WarAdvocat wrote:I use the cmos reset jumper, try again, no luck.

BIOS may be corrupted or shot, is it a socketed CMOS Chip?

WarAdvocat wrote:I know the guy my dad had working on this thing was a skeevy mofo. He offered to "scrap the old computer for free", so he obviously wanted to rebuild it and sell it himself. Is it possible he booby-trapped it somehow? I've looked around and can't find many Socket 423 mobos, and none in the micro-atx form factor this case would require...

obviously he is a greedy SOB, i dont know about booby-trapping it, but he may have done something to physically render it useless, intentionaly shorting something out, or what not, as he might already have the parts for it, but got stumped when he computer was not returned to him for him to re-sell.

WarAdvocat wrote:Is it possible maybe that he pulled the processor, or somehow damaged it? Or would I not even get that far if this were the case?

it could be a possibility, check the CPU package itself and make sure the pins are all aligned and it inserts with little-to-absolutely no force into the socket. if that aspect checks out, it coupld possibly be damamged internally from a ESD Discharge or whatever other type of event would internally damage it.

Delkian · Post by **Delkian** » Sat May 22, 2004 1:14 pm

I have a feeling that if the CPU were damaged, you wouldn't get even that far.

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sat May 22, 2004 3:10 pm

Delkian wrote:I have a feeling that if the CPU were damaged, you wouldn't get even that far.

overheating damages them, yet they still run untill critical components are lost.

kurupt · Post by **kurupt** » Sat May 22, 2004 8:23 pm

when i had an amd chip a few years ago, i fried the sombitch. it still booted to about the point yours is, then it locked. couldnt get into bios. from experience, i'd say check that chip.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun May 23, 2004 2:07 am

Tried replacing the CMOS battery ?

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun May 23, 2004 10:59 am

Well replacing the battery is worth a shot yeah...

How do I check the processor though?

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:20 am

Remove every device except a single HDD on IDE1 and the floppy. Also, remove all cards except for the video card. Reseat the CPU, and remove all but 1 ram module unless its DDR in which case all but 2.

It would help greatly if you could get some documentation on your MOBO to find out if everything is correct. I don't know how "skeevy" the guy is but it is possible that if the BIOS is removable, he could have replaced it with something else(non-working) or the ram could be bad, or any other such "skeevy" replacements.

Hell, he may have incorrectly or purposely burned an incorrect BIOS image.

I don't think he would have damaged the CPU or RAM on purpose as that would eat into his profits, but who knows? I still vote that something is wrong with the BIOS but I am wondering if quite possibly something else is bad as well.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun May 23, 2004 11:46 am

Actually, remove everything but the video card and memory, even the hard drives and floppy drive.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:04 pm

well it's a socket 423 mobo with PC-133 RAM...as for skeeve factor, I believe everything is there (minus the HSF which I acecombatted in)

To be honest I don't think the guy sabotaged the system, per se but from what I see he was in the process of stripping it before the sheep had even agreed to be fleeced, thus the missing HSF.

ok so I disconnect all devices, and reseat RAM, Vid card and processor?

This is going to sound dumb perhaps, but I've never messed w/ a processor before. Any concerns there? I have some thermal compound (califest handouts from last year) so that's not an issue, but I know that incorrect handling of the processor can be problematic.

Once I've done that, how will I know if the processor is good/bad etc? By how far it gets in bios?

Oh, should I include some photos of my Acecombat-engineered HSF ?

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Sun May 23, 2004 12:17 pm

lol at "before the sheep had even agreed to be fleeced". hehe

There's a lot of scared people out there that will tell ya to use a grounding wrist strap, but honestly, all you should do is make sure you are grounded by touching the frame of the case and don't do any repairs on a carpet

Just be careful when removing and inserting components. Patience is a virtue. If it won't budge, there is probably a reason.

As for the heatsink. Use rubbing alcohol to clean the mating surfaces and apply a very thin(should be see-through) layer of heatsink compound to both surfaces. Make sure it is even.

I would personally love to see a picture of the acecombatted CPU.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:42 pm

hehe. Ok I haven't removed the heat sink yet but I pulled everything else, tried to start it up w/ just vid card RAM and CPU, freezes in the same spot

I even tried it w/ the floppy attached. The light on the floppy stays on, regardless of which way the cable is plugged in, dunno why. I guess I'll try a different floppy drive.

The BIOS reads the CPU and tests the memory fine, so apparently all is well there, although I plan to pull the processor just for thoroughness.

I just wonder why the dang thing won't let me even go into setup. I hit del as soon as the stupid thing loads

Maybe time for a new MOBO. Too bad I can't find any socket 423 micro-atx mobos that don't want rambus RAM.

EDIT: Tried to get it to run w/ a different floppy, which eliminated the floppy error. I still get the CMOS checksum error however...AND now apparently I can get into the BIOS, but then it freezes there (or is unresponsive to keyboard input anyhow)....

STRESSTEST · Post by **STRESSTEST** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:02 pm

I skimmed, I admit it freely.

Did you reset the CMOS with the jumper on the mobo?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun May 23, 2004 6:22 pm

[Grendel] wrote:Tried replacing the CMOS battery ?

The key to enter the BIOS may be different from DEL (F1 or F10 come into my mind).

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:11 pm

You used cable ties to hold the HSF on? Look, that has a low probability of working in my view. The pressure on a core provided by the proper P4 HSF is quite high, in fact VERY high! I seriously doubt you can effectively cool a P4 (even WITH a great dollop of Arctic Silver or whathaveyou) by using cable ties to hold down the HSF.

Use the correct and proper retention mechanisms - and use a proper P4 cooler.

THEN come back here and tell us if things aint working properly.

Just as an aside, I'd try sticking that memory in a spare box and run MEMTEST86 on it.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:17 pm

Bill: yes

Grendel: Still haven't replaced the battery, but the system won't boot with the battery out, which says battery is probably adequate. I will be running by radio shack tomorrow on the off chance it IS the battery, however.

Additionally, I am getting into the BIOS via the DEL key per on-screen instructions, but the setup utility appears to be locked up and unresponsive to keyboard input. I'm going to try a USB keyboard next I think.

Mobius: You're confusing the fan with the heat sink. Thus, HSF instead of HS

The Heat Sink is clamped down properly

<edited smartass comment> Given that, any thoughts on what could be going on?

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun May 23, 2004 7:37 pm

Oh, and start flaming, here is the uber-HSF mod I created!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-3/1 ... BunHSF.JPG

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:01 pm

WarAdvocat wrote:Oh, and start flaming, here is the uber-HSF mod I created!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-3/1 ... BunHSF.JPG

lol, just one tie? or is it two?

and just so you guys know, i have changed it to a more appropriate setup

http://fs.myftp.biz:88/AcePix/GFFX2.JPG
*DIAL UP BEWARE!! EXTREME HIGH RES PHOTO!!*

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Mon May 24, 2004 1:12 am

Nice pic

The fact that you can now enter the BIOS is a good sign, but it sounds like either the keyboard is fried or other similar "skeeviness", your idea to try a USB keyboard is good, but I think unless it is set up properly in the BIOS, it may not work correctly.

The hard lock that you are experiencing may in fact not be a hard lock in so much as one normally thinks of one, but rather an incorrect setting in BIOS that prevents the computer from proceeding like an incorrect CPU speed, or keyboard setting, different BIOS's react differently to values that are out of whack.

I am curious, when did the ability to enter BIOS occur? Was it right after the working floppy was installed? Have you tried going back to the original floppy? Try to pin down exactly what you did, and what effect it had. If, for instance, you were able to enter BIOS after you reseated the CPU then that would say something.

I would say trying to get the keyboard to work is key at this point. Do the lights on the keyboard work? Does the CAPS lock LED turn on/off when you press CAPS lock, or not?

Lastly, look on the MOBO for any jumpers. If it is jumperless then you obviously won't have anything to look for but if there are any, check em out and make sure they are correct.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:13 am

There are 2 cable ties, diagonal from each other

If you look to the upper left hand side of the fan, you'll see the other cable tie which I didn't even bother to clip.

As for entering the BIOS setup utility, it appears that I may have had to hold down the DEL key from the time of power-on until it registers and loads the Setup screen.

I didn't figure this out until I had replaced the floppy drive, and I know that the installed floppy drive was not working correctly, but I got into BIOS once w/o the floppy attached at all, so I don't know whether this is an issue.

The keyboard lights up when it's detected, but it does not appear as though any keys register, including caps lock num lock etc once the system apparently freezes.

So far as I could see, the mobo is mostly jumperless, the only jumpers I could find in the manual were the bios reset, bios flash protect and one to enable wake on LAN or some such.

Just for the record, the word "Skeevy" is sort of synonymous with sleazy, with undertones of trailer-park. I don't know that you're using it correctly

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Mon May 24, 2004 10:36 am

im really betting that the mobo itself may be shorting out, or the BIOS chip itself is cooked.

is the CMOS Chip socketed? or is it soldered on?

SuperSheep · Post by **SuperSheep** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:10 am

As it's not a real word, I'd say my use is as good as yours

As for the mobo, you should only need to press the key once(you say it's Del) to enter your BIOS. Holding the key down may be causing the keyboard to lock up. I've had that happen to me actually.

What does it do with a different keyboard attached?

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon May 24, 2004 12:19 pm

SKEEVY IS TOO A REAL WORD!

Same thing with any PS2 keyboard, USB keyboard testing proceeds tonight.

<and I found a 13.00/free shipping mobo that works for me so I am going to order that too>

Not to veer back off topic, but Skeevy is Defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as: "Disgusting, distasteful, or dirty; discomforting; sleazy" Just FYI. But you go on making up meanings

Results on USB keyboard testing Anon!

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:07 pm

Looks like the motherboard is just shot...for some reason now the processor fan won't spin. Funny thing, it works fine when plugged in as a case fan, but the mobo stopped supplying power to the processor fan plug.

Scratch one mobo.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Tue May 25, 2004 10:19 pm

That board is definitely shot man. I'd start testing components since other parts may be fried. I bet the SOB stuck a fried board in that system just to be an ★■◆● and make money at the same time.

BUBBALOU · Post by **BUBBALOU** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:00 am

War! dude! chuck the mobo,,, enjoy! loser!

next time just call me!

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:11 am

Well the problem all along was looking to be the mobo, and most likely this is the original board, as the book my father sent matches the installed board. As long as the processor isn't fried, I'm all set.

Bubba-I will be calling you when the new mobo arrives.

I just got a used P4 1.7ghz computer, need some help?

I just got a used P4 1.7ghz computer, need some help?

Re: I just got a used P4 1.7ghz computer, need some help?